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Anything similar to Bitches Brew?

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seb2112 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 6:34pm
Now a lot of people call Bitches Brew the first fusion album because of it's use of electric instruments, but it in no way sounds like the meeting of jazz and rock from which fusion takes its name like mahavishnu, passport or nucleus do. Bitches Brew is its own thing... ad I want more! Did any other artists follow in Mile's soni footsteps and create something similar? I don't enjoy any other Miles record, not even the albums that usually get lumped in with BB as part of that era of his music like jack Johnson, on the corner or in a silent way, so I'm left with only the one record to quench my thirst. Can anyone recommand anything with a somewhat similar feel to this all-time classic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dreadpirateroberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 9:33am
Have been thinking about this and trying to come up with something and its hard. Someone with more knowledge will be able to help, but for me, I can't think of anything quite like it. Certainly tonnes of albums have been influenced, but not many seem to do what Bithes Brew does. Perhaps start with one of the box sets, which increase things to 4 cds or more, including outtakes that are very similar in feel.

The Miles album Live Evil maybe. Maybe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 10:18am
Might like this:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 11:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 2:18pm
Honestly, Herbie Hancock's albums "Mwandishi", "Crossings", and "Sextant" all were made with the Bitches Brew "spirit". Those albums are probably the closest to the BB sound you will find
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by dreadpirateroberts dreadpirateroberts wrote:

Have been thinking about this and trying to come up with something and its hard. Someone with more knowledge will be able to help, but for me, I can't think of anything quite like it. Certainly tonnes of albums have been influenced, but not many seem to do what Bithes Brew does. Perhaps start with one of the box sets, which increase things to 4 cds or more, including outtakes that are very similar in feel.

The Miles album Live Evil maybe. Maybe.
 
I got the 4CD Boxset and honestly, didn't really get into any of the extra material. On LIVE EVIL, I really enjoy Funky Tonk, so that adds 23 minutes of Brew-esque material, but I didn't enjoy the other tracks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Honestly, Herbie Hancock's albums "Mwandishi", "Crossings", and "Sextant" all were made with the Bitches Brew "spirit". Those albums are probably the closest to the BB sound you will find
 
I went through Hancock's whole discography and didn't really enjoy anything. To my ears it sounds like an instrumental version of Elton John, it doesnt have that heavy, evil, foreboading machine of doom feel I love from Bitche's Brew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

.
I love Mahavishnu and The Eleventh house, yet I could never get into either guitarist's solo albums. I even love Shakti, but Mclaughlin's solo albums do nothing for me. This Coryell track is better than I remembered though, so I'll give SPACES another listen. Any of his other solo albums worth checking out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abraxas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 4:36pm
You won't find a carbon-copy of Bitches Brew anywhere.

But I think you should insist with listening more to the Mwandishi albums, In a Silent Way by Miles, as well as Big Fun and Get Up With It. Also, Weather Report's debut and I Sing the Body Electric.
Electric Byrd by Donald Byrd is a good choice too.
Emergency! by Tony Williams Lifetime isn't really similar stylistically to Bitches, but it's an earlier "jazz rock" record that might be worth checking out. Raw rockish jams played by innovative jazz musicians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

You won't find a carbon-copy of Bitches Brew anywhere.

But I think you should insist with listening more to the Mwandishi albums, In a Silent Way by Miles, as well as Big Fun and Get Up With It. Also, Weather Report's debut and I Sing the Body Electric.
Electric Byrd by Donald Byrd is a good choice too.
Emergency! by Tony Williams Lifetime isn't really similar stylistically to Bitches, but it's an earlier "jazz rock" record that might be worth checking out. Raw rockish jams played by innovative jazz musicians.
I've given Hancock and Miles albums many chances and I just can't get into it, believe me I tried. Weather report is too smooth for my tastes. I'll look up this byrd guy though, never heard him.
 
I'm already into Lifetime, although I find them quite hit and miss
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abraxas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

You won't find a carbon-copy of Bitches Brew anywhere.

But I think you should insist with listening more to the Mwandishi albums, In a Silent Way by Miles, as well as Big Fun and Get Up With It. Also, Weather Report's debut and I Sing the Body Electric.
Electric Byrd by Donald Byrd is a good choice too.
Emergency! by Tony Williams Lifetime isn't really similar stylistically to Bitches, but it's an earlier "jazz rock" record that might be worth checking out. Raw rockish jams played by innovative jazz musicians.
I've given Hancock and Miles albums many chances and I just can't get into it, believe me I tried. Weather report is too smooth for my tastes. I'll look up this byrd guy though, never heard him.
 
I'm already into Lifetime, although I find them quite hit and miss

Sorry man, but I really don't believe you. 'I Sing the Body Electric' is anything but smooth. And while I can understand that you can't get into Miles other stuff and Hancock, which are indeed no easy affairs, try to find the "Bitches Brew-substance" in those records and you'll probably be able to enjoy those records more. Of course, if you've had enough of them, fine, but seriously those are the records that you should check out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2011 at 5:37am
I'm going to mention Vossabrygg one more time.  It's the only thing that has been suggested so far you haven't tried. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2011 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

You won't find a carbon-copy of Bitches Brew anywhere.

But I think you should insist with listening more to the Mwandishi albums, In a Silent Way by Miles, as well as Big Fun and Get Up With It. Also, Weather Report's debut and I Sing the Body Electric.
Electric Byrd by Donald Byrd is a good choice too.
Emergency! by Tony Williams Lifetime isn't really similar stylistically to Bitches, but it's an earlier "jazz rock" record that might be worth checking out. Raw rockish jams played by innovative jazz musicians.
I've given Hancock and Miles albums many chances and I just can't get into it, believe me I tried. Weather report is too smooth for my tastes. I'll look up this byrd guy though, never heard him.
 
I'm already into Lifetime, although I find them quite hit and miss

Sorry man, but I really don't believe you. 'I Sing the Body Electric' is anything but smooth. And while I can understand that you can't get into Miles other stuff and Hancock, which are indeed no easy affairs, try to find the "Bitches Brew-substance" in those records and you'll probably be able to enjoy those records more. Of course, if you've had enough of them, fine, but seriously those are the records that you should check out.
Go ahead and convince me then! Post your favorite track from all those records and I will gladely give them a dedicated ear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick Heath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 5:36am
[QUOTE]
Now a lot of people call Bitches Brew the first fusion album because of it's use of electric instruments,
[QUOTE]
 
We went through this debate 10 years ago at Prog Archives, and if anybody cares to do some research then this statement falls apart. MIles Davis took an underground music making it more popular by taking it temporarily overground to big audiences. The second episode of the Jazz Britannia series on BBC TV a few years back suggested jazz rock fusion goes back to ~63 with the likes of Graham Bond and Georgie Fame - which I find is pushing it . (Indeed when did the genre of rock get separated from rock'n'roll?). Stuart Nicholson in his excellent book on the subject, Jazz Rock: A History reviews American jazz rock pre-1965 - the Miles Davis chapter is several into the book.
 
I suspect Miles davis was too impatient to record the same sort of music twice, but I did have a go trying find something similar to Bitches,  and one of the belatedly issued live at Fillmore recorded about the time of Bitches' releases, may be as close as you can get..
 
I think after MIles' death Tony Williams gathered a number of former Davis sidemen together for a MIles Tribute, with Wallace Rooney taking MIles role.
 
Vossabrygg is supposed to be Bitches Brew influenced, but with the several of musicans involved having said Miles was a godfather to nu.fusion, then it is tless surprising that this is a nu.fusion take.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

[QUOTE]
Now a lot of people call Bitches Brew the first fusion album because of it's use of electric instruments,
[QUOTE]
 
We went through this debate 10 years ago at Prog Archives, and if anybody cares to do some research then this statement falls apart. MIles Davis took an underground music making it more popular by taking it temporarily overground to big audiences. The second episode of the Jazz Britannia series on BBC TV a few years back suggested jazz rock fusion goes back to ~63 with the likes of Graham Bond and Georgie Fame - which I find is pushing it . (Indeed when did the genre of rock get separated from rock'n'roll?). Stuart Nicholson in his excellent book on the subject, Jazz Rock: A History reviews American jazz rock pre-1965 - the Miles Davis chapter is several into the book.
 
I suspect Miles davis was too impatient to record the same sort of music twice, but I did have a go trying find something similar to Bitches,  and one of the belatedly issued live at Fillmore recorded about the time of Bitches' releases, may be as close as you can get..
 
I think after MIles' death Tony Williams gathered a number of former Davis sidemen together for a MIles Tribute, with Wallace Rooney taking MIles role.
 
Vossabrygg is supposed to be Bitches Brew influenced, but with the several of musicans involved having said Miles was a godfather to nu.fusion, then it is tless surprising that this is a nu.fusion take.
Ok let's word it like this then. Although Bitches Brew started fusion, it has little to do with the bands that would later popularize the term FUSION by playing jazz-rock.
 
And Vossabrygg did not impress me. Although it is similar to bitches brew, to me at least, it sounds amateurish in it's feeble attempt to re-create the same atmosphere
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abraxas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 4:56pm
^of course that Bitches Brew has nothing to do with "actual fusion". Davis mainly relied in improvisation simplifying things, so that's why I and others say that early Weather Report and early Hancock are the most similar fusion acts to Davis. They also followed Davis' improvisational idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:05pm
Why has BB nothing to do with actual fusion? That is new to me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kazuhiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:13pm
Perhaps, I think that Miles Davis created music by the dimension that exceeds even the subgenre. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Why has BB nothing to do with actual fusion? That is new to me. 
well, NOTHING is a slight exageration, but the fact that we're having a hard time finding anything similar is a good indication that the average fusion band in the 70's didn't follow the basic archetypes set by Bitches Brew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 10:09pm
We didn't have a hard time finding similar stuff, it was you who rejected all those good recommendations. LOL
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