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Overly generous ratings??

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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2011 at 3:11am
Originally posted by js js wrote:

I'm going to move this thread to General Discussions, don't take the Just For Fun as a diss, that was just standard practice I got from your old buddy Tony back at the rock-n-roll site, wrongly placed threads go to Just for Fun, its nice so you don't have to think about it too much.

Help Us Improve this Site, at least at this site, means things that Max or the staff can actually change, for instance Alex's suggestion of changing Jazz Vocals to Vocal Jazz, great suggestion and we implemented it right away.
Neither Max or anyone here can change how people rate albums.
 
OK, thanks, JohnWink
 
I'll deit my post on first page...
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2011 at 3:23am
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by js js wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

If this site had a top 100 like at PA, it wouldn't include jazz-related albums like Funk, JR-Rock, etc.... right?

First part - it does
Second part - it doesn't


Oh yea duhh!!! I knew that. I looked at it once a couple weeks back Embarrassed

Ok good, since I can't see a James Brown album in the top 100 (though any jazz fan who like a good beat should enjoy his music; it IS very jazzy at times, borderline funk-jazz)
 
My remark about generous ratings was in no way linked tothe top list , which I haven't even bothered checking.
 
I simply never look at these top rated lists (except maybe at Gnosis2000)..
 
Soo just to be clear, I wasn't hinting at all at someone over-rating every album in order to skew the top-taing lists at JMA
 
I really think that jazzheads are above these teen-agers temptations and list-fixation/obsession... I man, outside Rico (who might be over 20 nowadays and wouldn't classify as a teenager anymoreWink), how many teenagers listen to jazz.... and if there are some, they're probably nort obsessed by list ... this list-skewing risk is mostly for MMA and PA
 
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:


The ratings should be based on if it is a good addition to a jazz collection, and to weed out the outstanding and great from the average or run-of-the-mill

5 stars = No jazz collection is complete without it
4 1/2 stars = Just as essential as a 5 star album, but doesn't quite hit the masterpiece status
4 stars = Exceptional album, usually just a great, solid album
3 1/2 stars = Might be a dud here or there, but at least half the album is essential jazz listening
3 stars = Average album, if you've heard this one, you've probably heard dozens like it. Good, but nothing special
2 1/2 stars = Another average album, except this one is boring, or very sugar coated smooth jazz
2 stars = Probably only 1 or 2 songs worth having, the rest is bad/average. Maybe the production is not so good; or it is not jazz-related, but might be enjoyed by a jazz fan. (sometimes this can be applied to 2 1/2 star albums)
1 1/2 stars = Poor quality/sloppy playing/sugar sugar sugar!
1 star = If an album gets one star or less, it's either the smoothest of smooth jazz, or is bad music in general.
1/2 star = use your imagination....


 
This is an excellent descriptionClap, and it similar to what I use
 
even if I wouldn't use the word exceptional for four star... I mean four star are not an exception, IMHO
I'd use exceptional for 4.5 stars and excellent for four star.
 
I like the sugar description for the lower ratings LOL
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2011 at 7:11pm
Evaluating jazz may be significantly different than evaluating prog--  obviously jazz has a unique approach to the way the music is made and presented, and therefore involves the listener in a different way, a different level of perception.  It may be that certain artists or substyles by nature will garner fairly consistent ratings, whether low or high.  I think of John Abercrombie;  though he's released many albums of varying quality, they often sound as if they were made the very next week, day, or even moment, rather than a distinctly new set of material that is notably different from the last.

Thank you for indulging this incoherent moment.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2011 at 2:36am

^^^^

 Makes quite a bit of sense to me

 

Rating albums in jazz must be different than rock albums... jazz existed before the very concept of an album really appeared... and even when it did, it rarely appeared to be digested completely by jazz artistes or circles (except maybe ECM), as they just made a bunch of songs and stuck them together...  Listening to 70's Shepp albums can be a bit dismaying for rock/prog fans, with civil rights oriented material next to crooner garbage stuff and some almost-straight-blues

 

Indeed in jazz, albums were recorded in just one or two session and no special care of making a real production (outside having a good or correct sound) and some were doing two or three albums a year, and didn't think in terms of cohesiveness or coherence, this despite jazzmen being for 0% much better musos than rock ones

my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2011 at 4:22pm
If its good it will get a good rating. One thing I do not like reviewing albums that are on the other end of the spectrum for me, simply because I have to listen to them at least a few times, esp when doing the review. Since I have been here I have been doing the ones that I like primarily and a lot of the Latin ones so far are masterpieces in that genre. Since nobody really listens to Afro Cuban, I would rather point out the real goodies from my perspective. Same goes for Hard Bop. Many of the Blue Note albums that I have reviewed are listed in the top 25 releases of all time from them. One rule for me and that is if I still want to hear the album again after I played it completely it will get a minimum of four stars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 5:24am
Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

If its good it will get a good rating. One thing I do not like reviewing albums that are on the other end of the spectrum for me, simply because I have to listen to them at least a few times, esp when doing the review. Since I have been here I have been doing the ones that I like primarily and a lot of the Latin ones so far are masterpieces in that genre. Since nobody really listens to Afro Cuban, I would rather point out the real goodies from my perspective. Same goes for Hard Bop. Many of the Blue Note albums that I have reviewed are listed in the top 25 releases of all time from them. One rule for me and that is if I still want to hear the album again after I played it completely it will get a minimum of four stars.
 
Not meaning to be picky, here.... Shocked (and nothing personal I assure youSmile)
 
But this is exactly what I'm afraid of... Too many albums that I'd want to "hear again"  to warrant a fourth star
 
The way you just worded it,  makes me think that you'd be rating most albums you listen to at four stars
 
Maybe you meant pushing "replay" to hear that album a second time successively (I do that frequently, especially at reviewing time)... but even then I'd still find this overly-generous.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dreadpirateroberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 7:25am
My current goal for reviews, is to try and only write reviews for albums that I've owned for year or more, 6 months at the least.

It's very, very hard, as for everything that I buy, I feel like I can't review it yet, because I haven't 'lived with it' long enough.   I will essentially have to make exceptions in order to comment on 'new music' however, so I just have to remind myself not to get too carried away with the flush of something new and exciting I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 9:31am
Originally posted by dreadpirateroberts dreadpirateroberts wrote:

My current goal for reviews, is to try and only write reviews for albums that I've owned for year or more, 6 months at the least.

It's very, very hard, as for everything that I buy, I feel like I can't review it yet, because I haven't 'lived with it' long enough.
 
I will essentially have to make exceptions in order to comment on 'new music' however, so I just have to remind myself not to get too carried away with the flush of something new and exciting I guess.
 
In my fave rating site, Gnosis2000, the propose that yopu waitt at least a few months before rationg a newly acquired album, or that you rate it no higher than 11 (out of 15), then return to re-rate after if you find your opinion hasd changed
 
 
 
 
 
 
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

If its good it will get a good rating. One thing I do not like reviewing albums that are on the other end of the spectrum for me, simply because I have to listen to them at least a few times, esp when doing the review. Since I have been here I have been doing the ones that I like primarily and a lot of the Latin ones so far are masterpieces in that genre. Since nobody really listens to Afro Cuban, I would rather point out the real goodies from my perspective. Same goes for Hard Bop. Many of the Blue Note albums that I have reviewed are listed in the top 25 releases of all time from them. One rule for me and that is if I still want to hear the album again after I played it completely it will get a minimum of four stars.
 
Not meaning to be picky, here.... Shocked (and nothing personal I assure youSmile)
 
But this is exactly what I'm afraid of... Too many albums that I'd want to "hear again"  to warrant a fourth star
 
The way you just worded it,  makes me think that you'd be rating most albums you listen to at four stars
 
Maybe you meant pushing "replay" to hear that album a second time successively (I do that frequently, especially at reviewing time)... but even then I'd still find this overly-generous.
Life is too short to listen to half baked albums a second time by just being lazy. As I said, if they get a 2nd play I am enjoying it. I said on my previous post above about reviewing albums that I am not overly impressed with for the reason that I do have to play them repeatedly.
You don't need to highlight what I previously posted Sean. I know what I wrote. Why don't you come on What Are you Listening Too and post. You play that many albums and it would be interesting to see what you play.
 
That yellow colour by the way is not good as you can not read it on white background which is how the notification emails come through Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

 
 
. Why don't you come on What Are you Listening Too and post. You play that many albums and it would be interesting to see what you play.
 
 
well I did a couple time, but that thread is so quick that you retir,n the day after, and your last post a 2 pages behind. (it also takes time to load up the pages, because of the pictures. At work, it's ok, but at home, it can take up half a minute before all of them pictures are in.
 
--------------------------------------
 
Anyway, you can more or less see what I listen to by what I'm reviewing on the present site... It's been mostly that way since 2005 in PA, and it's not changing much since I'm on JMA.
 
right nows, it's mainly Shepp (almost finished), British Jazz (Rendell-Carr Quintet and graham Collier), Shorter, Rollins (just starting)... And I'm more or less finished on Andrew Hill and Sanders...
 
Actually when I review an album, I'm about to drop it from my rotation, sooo I can of recapsulate my feelings on it by writing the review... and probably won't be returning to it fior a few months... sometimes years
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dreadpirateroberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by dreadpirateroberts dreadpirateroberts wrote:

My current goal for reviews, is to try and only write reviews for albums that I've owned for year or more, 6 months at the least.

It's very, very hard, as for everything that I buy, I feel like I can't review it yet, because I haven't 'lived with it' long enough.
 
I will essentially have to make exceptions in order to comment on 'new music' however, so I just have to remind myself not to get too carried away with the flush of something new and exciting I guess.
 
In my fave rating site, Gnosis2000, the propose that yopu waitt at least a few months before rationg a newly acquired album, or that you rate it no higher than 11 (out of 15), then return to re-rate after if you find your opinion hasd changed
 


I think that's a good idea too, revisiting an album at a stage after a review is done - just in case months or even years later, if it's a 'sleeper' album that takes a long, long time to win you over. But when it finally does...wow
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