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darkshade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 4:00pm
If this site had a top 100 like at PA, it wouldn't include jazz-related albums like Funk, JR-Rock, etc.... right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 3:47pm
I'm pretty even when it comes to ratings. I rated albums anywhere from 5 stars to 1 1/2 stars. Of course my ratings here are based on how good it is in a jazz context, not necessarily if it is progressive or innovative. I haven't heard much jazz that is worth less than 3 stars; the only time this would happen is if it is "smooth" jazz (the kind that isn't good), or if it is jazz-related rock and doesn't have ANY jazz in it (certain Zappa albums, etc...). The rare occasion would be if the sound quality was poor, or the playing was very sloppy (which is rare in jazz)

The ratings should be based on if it is a good addition to a jazz collection, and to weed out the outstanding and great from the average or run-of-the-mill

5 stars = No jazz collection is complete without it
4 1/2 stars = Just as essential as a 5 star album, but doesn't quite hit the masterpiece status
4 stars = Exceptional album, usually just a great, solid album
3 1/2 stars = Might be a dud here or there, but at least half the album is essential jazz listening
3 stars = Average album, if you've heard this one, you've probably heard dozens like it. Good, but nothing special
2 1/2 stars = Another average album, except this one is boring, or very sugar coated smooth jazz
2 stars = Probably only 1 or 2 songs worth having, the rest is bad/average. Maybe the production is not so good; or it is not jazz-related, but might be enjoyed by a jazz fan. (sometimes this can be applied to 2 1/2 star albums)
1 1/2 stars = Poor quality/sloppy playing/sugar sugar sugar!
1 star = If an album gets one star or less, it's either the smoothest of smooth jazz, or is bad music in general.
1/2 star = use your imagination....




Edited by darkshade - 14 Jul 2011 at 3:58pm
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 3:54am
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Suddenly nobody is reviewing higher than 3.5. Tongue
 
I wish....Tongue
 
Remember that a 3 or 3.5 means a good album.... even if non-essential
 
Sooooo, it's not like you're being insulting to an album by giving it 3...it's actually quite a compliment...
 
 
 
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 3:09am
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

You know Hugues, a fellow countryman of yours I read is very generous with the ratings. As if all new jazz is riveting. Wink
 
Yes, typically the type of behaviour I'm on aboutAngryWink....
 
Ok, new releases deserves their chances to be heard (I actually like a lot some Nu-jazz and acid-jazz)... but ratherthan reading this type or review and buying it on the reviewer's words, I'll go to my library system and make up my own mind...
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 3:03am
Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

In my enthusiasm for this site I found myself wanting to review the albums I liked the most in my collection so, therefore, high ratings were inevitable.  Now that I'm going through the secondary material I'm much more judgmental and hard to please.
 
That's only normal behaviour to cater on with our favourite albumsSmile. I did the same in terms of reviewing (although I still have to do my fave Trane and Tyner reviews)...
 
I'm not so much on the reviewing proper (where you can explain the rating) than about the  StarStarStarStarStar rating and running (I do some rate & run as well, but I don't get stuck in the 5* mode)
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicapah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 1:37pm
In my enthusiasm for this site I found myself wanting to review the albums I liked the most in my collection so, therefore, high ratings were inevitable.  Now that I'm going through the secondary material I'm much more judgmental and hard to please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 8:56am
You know Hugues, a fellow countryman of yours I read is very generous with the ratings. As if all new jazz is riveting. Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dreadpirateroberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 8:25am
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Suddenly nobody is reviewing higher than 3.5. Tongue


Thinking of holding off on doing some reviews for a while, actually Wink

But seriously, when I have time I'll review a few and see how they turn out. I believe I can change the rating one day, if I take a second look at an album and decide to edit a review?

And I'm going to try and review albums I've had for at least several months. Years is better. Though I may make an exception for one album that I believe needs some exposure that I've only had for a month or so.
We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
Reviews...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 8:14am
Suddenly nobody is reviewing higher than 3.5. Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 8:08am
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:



Well actually these kinds of sites (such as ours, but RYM or more)  must also take on an encyclopedic view of the whole jazz spectrum, imho. After all, don't we announce ourselves as "ultimate" first and foremost???


That is a good point, but we'd need a collective effort. As I said, many reviews are personal.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idlero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
The risk of collegial over-rating might actually mislead a newcomer in choosing  the ABC album (somewhat not at the top) from the XYZ band, instead of the MNO or PQR album (their real masterpieces) based on a minimal rating difference, and that very newcommer might be disgusted at trying another album if it's considered among the very best from XYZ... That's why it's important to have a significant margin between top rung and sexcond echelon albums. 


I think you worry too much.  Better to try one or two albums that were overrated than miss some good albums because they were underated by some overcritical reviewers
And anyway , today  you can try almost anything before you buy, and you can consult more than one source for reviews, even professional ones.

I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 7:46am
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

With only 7 ***** ratings out of 107 I think I'm on Hugues' side. I would round up to ***** a good number of my ****1/2 ratings on a simplified rating scheme like that of PA, but I am thanful that half stars are available here and let us differentiate between fundamental, transcendental masterpieces and albums that are perfect in their own way but not really up there with the former.


Most of the reviewers here are experienced reviewers from PA, I doubt they are too generous with their ratings, why do you have this impression Hugues?
 
Interesting process, and agreed on the principle,  although I would tend to downgrade (instead of upgrade)  a 4.5 into a 4 on ProgArchives, precisely to let "la crème de la crème" appear at the top.
Yes, Halfstar are so much nicer than full starsBig smileLOL 
The risk of collegial over-rating might actually mislead a newcomer in choosing  the ABC album (somewhat not at the top) from the XYZ band, instead of the MNO or PQR album (their real masterpieces) based on a minimal rating difference, and that very newcommer might be disgusted at trying another album if it's considered among the very best from XYZ... That's why it's important to have a significant margin between top rung and sexcond echelon albums. 
 
 
yes I know most raters are from PA and are experienced, but to grasp the overall scheme in jazz when most of us are still quite "tender" and still finding our way (that's valid for me as well) is very trticky...
 
That's why I prefer the conservative rating approach, instead of the over-appreciative total music fan that is too optimistic.
 
On Gnosis2000 (where I rate as well), we have a cool policy of not rating a new album (not just recent release, but any new acquisition) any higher than 11 (out of 15) to avoid the novelty factor.
 
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 7:35am
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

With only 7 ***** ratings out of 107 I think I'm on Hugues' side.


How? That wouldn't make us overzealous.


I'm on Hugues' side in the sense that I try to become more of a balanced reviewer. And I don't see how my posts implies anything about other people here. Question


D'oh, your 107 ratings. *facepalm*


I don't understand what you were trying to say anymore. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 7:27am
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Okay, serious mode.

The site is new, the ratings for a specific album are few (or in many cases just one), they obviously need to settle in time. A lot of folks (especially from PA) have expressed coming here to hear new and great jazz, so they could very well focus on what they liked a lot. I find that there are few of us who are looking into jazz encyclopedically.

Other than that, every member would now need to come and explain his methods / why isn't he more critic (in case he's one of those putting a lot of stars in) / why he's not thinking more globally about jazz instead of how much his pleasure points were tickled by some specific improv etc. I think there's a bit of harrassing in this.
 
I fully agree that the ratings have yet to be entered in great quantities and no doubt that they (ratings) will settle down, once the dust has fallen back on the ground.Smile
 
Well actually these kinds of sites (such as ours, but RYM or more)  must also take on an encyclopedic view of the whole jazz spectrum, imho. After all, don't we announce ourselves as "ultimate" first and foremost???
 
That's also how I rated from day1 in ProgArchives... I don't make an artiste's best album (to moi, of courseWink)  automatically a five, 4.5 or four star if it doesn't deserve it. I take (or at least try to take)  into consideration  an album's historical relevance and it's influential potential or proven influence. I sort of master my own view for an overall-view of  prog (and/or classic rock), but I must say that it's quite trickier for jazz, gioven my age and the much longer time lapse involved >> the subject is so vast, that it's rather difficult (if not impossible) to have total mastery of all its areas or genres.
 
But the thing is that right now, with every (or almost) album having an above-four-star rating, it's quite hard to make out the essential albums from the more anecdotic ones (Slava's example about Jarrett is perfect in this regard) if they're all equally-rated.Confused
 
re: rating justification: Well I was wondering if the reviewing members wouldn't have a space in his profile ( like in PA), where they could tell of their background and maybe explain his rating method...explain it once and for all there.
 
 
 
 
 
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 7:00am
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

With only 7 ***** ratings out of 107 I think I'm on Hugues' side.


How? That wouldn't make us overzealous.


I'm on Hugues' side in the sense that I try to become more of a balanced reviewer. And I don't see how my posts implies anything about other people here. Question


D'oh, your 107 ratings. *facepalm*

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 6:59am
Originally posted by idlero idlero wrote:

I never used (here or on PA) nor will use 1/2*  or *


I don't think going so low is the point.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idlero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 6:54am
I never used (here or on PA) nor will use 1/2*  or *
I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 6:53am
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

With only 7 ***** ratings out of 107 I think I'm on Hugues' side.


How? That wouldn't make us overzealous.


I'm on Hugues' side in the sense that I try to become more of a balanced reviewer. And I don't see how my posts implies anything about other people here. Question
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 6:31am
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

With only 7 ***** ratings out of 107 I think I'm on Hugues' side.


How? That wouldn't make us overzealous.
Then again, the number 4.0 / 4.5 stars is probably the most significant.

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

  I would round up to ***** a good number of my ****1/2 ratings on a simplified rating scheme like that of PA, but I am thanful that half stars are available here and let us differentiate between fundamental, transcendental masterpieces and albums that are perfect in their own way but not really up there with the former.


My ratings here will likely be 0.5 higher than how I would rate the album in full musical context (or simply in my own preferential box).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 5:59am
With only 7 ***** ratings out of 107 I think I'm on Hugues' side. I would round up to ***** a good number of my ****1/2 ratings on a simplified rating scheme like that of PA, but I am thankful that half stars are available here and let us differentiate between fundamental, transcendental masterpieces and albums that are perfect in their own way but not really up there with the former.

Also, my favourite genres (Nu-Jazz and Third Stream) have averages of 3.92 and 4.09 in my ratings statistics, I think that's quite balanced.

Most of the reviewers here are experienced reviewers from PA, I doubt they are too generous with their ratings, why do you have this impression Hugues?


Edited by harmonium.ro - 12 Jul 2011 at 7:47am
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