Charlie Parker!
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Category: Jazz Music Lounges
Forum Name: Jazz Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific jazz artists/bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.JazzMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=711
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2024 at 10:03pm
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Topic: Charlie Parker!
Posted By: MilesBeyond
Subject: Charlie Parker!
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 4:12pm
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I don't even know if there's anything left to be said about Bird. The guy is a bona fide American music legend and one of the greatest musicians of the century and, I suspect, in the history of mankind. But, I was wondering: What's a good album of his to pick up? Right now I've got a couple boxsets, which have got some great stuff on them but it's interspersed with an awful lot of false starts, incomplete takes, and footage that's of very low sound quality (understandable, of course, but that doesn't necessarily make it listenable). Any recommendations for a couple of straight up albums that have some great material on them? Jamey Aebersold recommends Bird & Diz and Now's the Time. Can anyone vouch for those? |
Replies:
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 4:37pm
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I was listening to some songs from' Bird and Diz' the other night on Pandora, I was very impressed. Any of those live albums he did with Diz when they were at their peak are pretty much the ultimate expression of jazz to me. If anyone has never heard those two at their high flying wreckless best, they are missing a lot.
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Posted By: js
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 4:59pm
| Here is one that I do not own that sounds like a good one: "At the 1946 JATP Concert". It features an all-star jam session with Diz and Buddy Rich, as well as some older guys like Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins. It would also be interesting to hear those last two take on the new style. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 4:59pm
I have Bird and Diz as well and Charlie Parker at Storyville. Even though I have heard not a lot I do agree with John to go Live with him. Storyville though is not that great. ( really blurry Sound). I know to keep away from his West Coast sessions which are regarded as his worst due to being absolutely drunk because of a lack of heroin. Dizzy dumped him ( don't blame Diz)) and went back East and Charlie wound up in the Looney Bin. Dizzy said in his autobiography that he told Charlie "You are slobberin' in your horn".    ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 5:01pm
If he couldn't find any heroin in California, then he probably wasn't in San Francisco. 
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Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 5:10pm
 ------------- Matt |
js wrote:Posted By: js
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 5:18pm
 Look out now, you're talking about my old hometown. Go Giants!! 
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Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 5:23pm
 I know what happens I saw Al Pacino in "Cruising"  ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 7:25pm
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I've only got the Eastwood movie and a sort of best of CD. So, what's his best studio album?
------------- 
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Posted By: js
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 7:35pm
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The best of the Verve years looks like a nice collection. I don't own it. Unfortunately a lot of my older jazz music is on poorly marked cassettes recorded long ago that may say some thing like 'bird' or 'jazz' and not much else. If I hear him on an old cassette of mine, he is usually instantly recognizable. These days I'm just lazy and program Pandora stations to play the music I want to hear.
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Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 7:37pm
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The work of Bird is classified as a general opinion at the time of Savoy, Dial, and Verve. "On Dial" series might be known well. A personal favorite is "With Strings". |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 7:41pm
| The 'with strings' albums are generally ballads and/or popular tunes of the time. He got a lot of flak from the hardcore bop crowd for going 'commercial', but these days his dates with strings are highly regarded and they do sound very nice. |
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 10:49pm
The forum is a reference book of jazz. 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 2:53am
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I know I'm gonna get killed for this...
but when I joined JMA, one of the first thing I did was to rent Eastwood's Birdie movie to view (I had seen it in the theater back then), just to see if I still didn't really like the music...
Right around that time, I also saw once more Tavernier's Round About Midnight (with Dexter Gordon).... I much preferred the second movie....
Something makes not appreciate Bird's music.... toooooo old-sounding for me.
I still like the scene when Bird " borrowed" the other sax player's instruments to see if it was built the same way and copuld play more than one note at a time
>> priceless!------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....  |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 12:11pm
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Anyone aware of "The Quintet"? This was a real band back in the late 40s or early 50s. I used to have a recording of them on my old computer, and it was some awesome bop of that period. But the lineup was fantastic Charlie Parker - sax Dizzy Gillespie trumpet Charles Mingus - bass Bud Powell - piano Max Roach - drums talk about a "Supergroup of Jazz" ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 12:13pm
| ^ Wow! That is incredible band. Any idea what the album or albums names are? |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 12:33pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_at_Massey_Hall" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_at_Massey_Hall ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm |
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 12:51pm
| Can you tell me if The quintet had released a studio album? |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 1:03pm
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I think that live album on the wikipedia site is the only album they have. It's the one I used to have (I wish I had gotten a hard copy). I remember it being very good however, and very good quality, considering it's a live album from the early 50s
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm |
Posted By: MilesBeyond
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 2:13pm
Wow, thanks for the tip! Talk about a fantastic band |
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2011 at 2:26pm
| Thanks Mike! |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 2:58am
Definitely an all-star band
 .5 out of 5The half-star is for the piano... Bud Powell is not as big a name in piano as his bandmates are in their own respective instruments, though.
Is that Massey Hall (one of my fave venues anywhere in the world) concert the only thing they did together??
------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones.... |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 6:50am
| ^ Bud Powell not a big name, since when? |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 7:20am
compared to whom
 ?? Monk, Tatum, Ellington, Basie, Brubeck, Bill Evans , Hank Jones, etc... (just to mention the pre-60's ones that recorded under their own names)Don't get me wrong, I didn't say the man was a dwarf either... just that next to Dizzy, Mingus, Roach and Bird, Powell's own star shines a little less (at least to moi)... that's all I meant! ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones.... |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 7:30am
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Bud Powell invented modern jazz piano, open 7ths in the left hand, horn like lines in the right. This is how pianists have played jazz since he introduced this style, and this is the style they play to this day. Any jazz piano player will tell you, he is probably the most influential pianist of all. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 8:06am
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Well although I've been subjected to jazz since around 5 (my father had around 200 vinyls from the 40's & 50's >> he was not really a 60's man), and I've listened to jazz since roughly 1985 (say 23-years old), I only became aware of powell's name in the late 90's, whe,n all of the other four names were household names (mine anyway) by the time I was 10 to 15..
I never claimed to make a judgment of value... I speak through my own experience and déjà-vécu...
. ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones.... |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 8:11am
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As a professional jazz pianist and teacher of jazz theory. I can assure you he is still probably the most influential pianist in modern jazz. After Powell you get the quartal harmonies of McCoy Tyner. Herbie and Bill Evans take that and add the 9th chord and altered chord sounds of the French composers. Monk gets a bit AG with it and then Sun Ra and Cecil Taylor take that higher. These days, modern jazz piano players have become very eclectic and some will pull from sources earlier than Powell. Before Powell came along, Art Tatum was probably the most influential, and he is still an influence too.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 9:35am
OK, got your drift
 ...It was not my point anyway. All i was saying is that in terms of public popularity, Powell doesn't spring up as instantly as his four colleagues in that band, and even compared to the pianists I cited in my second intervention ...
Back to Bird, now....
 ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones.... |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 10:43am
| ^ I don't agree with that either, but whatever, it is supposed to be a thread about Bird. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 11:29am
We never do about much , uh?? ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones.... |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2011 at 1:22pm
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That "Live at Massey Hall" is, I believe; the only known recorded album of that lineup.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2011 at 6:44pm
Here is something for the true Bird lover..........The Complete Benedetti Recordings of Charlie Parker
 Just his solos over two weeks with some added stuff from 1947. That is all he recorded not a complete number in sight just Bird solo after Bird solo.
You will not be judged a true fan unless ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2011 at 11:52pm
^ I'm not crazy about the collections that only have his solos instead of the whole song, but get this, I just came back from a record store that had a couple of those "Charlie Parker on Dial" collections. I bought "Volume 6" which has a very young Miles on trumpet playing the be-bop. 
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Posted By: Dylbean
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 10:52am
| I want to put in another word for Jazz at Massey Hall being a killer live album, for sure. The one thing I will say is it gets flak for Mingus redubbing the bass lines in. That's the only version I have though, so I can't really compare, but it does seem to me to be a bit of a bizarre thing to do, but I guess they did things differently back then. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2011 at 4:32pm
You know there is only actually four tracks with Parker on that one. 11 listed but all the others are alts or false starts. Still good though. Parker sounds great. The other stuff is with a vocalist Rubber Legs Williams. Like to add, no nothing about Rubber Legs. Only ever heard him on that album, never looked though either. Who was Rubber legs Williams?  I will look at him in the near future. With a name like that, maybe he was an absolute boozer
I ordered some Parker myself due to this thread and I went for
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000067FUO/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=5174&s=music" rel="nofollow">
 Would have liked the JSP set because it had the lot of Savoy and Dial but Out of Print and pay for a JSP set what they are asking They are dreamin" those sellers. Anyway this seems to have all the biggies that I know and a plenty I don't. I always found him so smooth, by that I mean with his changes etc. fluid might be a better term. About a month off though, with who I bought it through, cheap but I reckon they use row boat not airmail ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2011 at 5:04pm
| I've never heard of Rubber Legs, but I already like him. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2011 at 9:25am
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Interesting that you guys are talking about CP. I'm in the process of re-watching Clint Eastwood's somber "Bird" over several nights (haven't seen it in ages) and it really points out what a troubled man he was who, despite his addictions and bad habits, made some incredible music that will live forever.
------------- Make a joyful noise unto the Lord... |
Posted By: Dylbean
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2011 at 3:21pm
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Lots of people keep mentioning that movie, Bird. I've never heard of it till now. So you guys suggest checking it out? ------------- There is no god, but music is pretty cool. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2011 at 4:31pm
Awesome movie..........directed by Clint Eastwood, Forest Whitaker is Bird. I nearly watched it myself ( again) just the other night. I really don't believe anyone else could have done as good a job as Clint Eastwood being into Jazz the way he is. The film was released in 1988........23 years ago  ........can't believe its that long back.------------- Matt |
Posted By: Dylbean
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 8:16pm
I'll try to check it out. I didn't realize Clint Eastwood was into jazz either. Shows what I know.  ------------- There is no god, but music is pretty cool. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2011 at 8:19pm
| Early in his career it was hard to tell if he was into acting. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 2:55am
Saw it back when it was released in the theater, mainly to see if I could get into Bird's music back then (this is about 20 years ago)... Back then , Eastwood was not yet known as a movie director, and personally I don't think this is one of his better one.... but it's also tricky to do a biography rather than a fiction... the risk to be a little bored is much higher...
Actually the only thing I really remembered was when Bird "steals" the saxophone and plays in the back alley to see check if it didn't have a defect and couldn't play more than one note at a time.... that had me laughing...
I rented it again about three or four months ago, when the site opened and to be honest, my opinion hasn't changed all that much, both about the movie and Parker's music...
In terms of jazz movies, I much prefer Tavernier's Round About Midnight ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones.... |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 1:34pm
I agree that, being one of Eastwood's earliest attempts at directing, the story moves slowly and the whole thing is quite dark but I admire how he avoided glamorizing Bird or ignoring his addictive personality that so hampered his art. I'm sure if Clint had it to do over he'd take some pointers from the fabulous "Ray" biopic and brighten the mood a bit. Still, I'd enthusiastically recommend it to anybody who is curious about why Parker is so revered. Now, if only someone would dare to take on Miles!  ------------- Make a joyful noise unto the Lord... |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 3:10pm
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I like it but I am biased with Clint. Thought Forest Whittaker played Bird great. I liked it dark. its not like Bird had the happiest of times and Whittaker brought an almost nervous fragile underlay with the character. One of his other early directing movies is a classic as well and one of my favourites and that is "Bronco Billy". ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 3:17pm
 . "Yee hah" What about 'Where Eagles Dare" John. seriously though he made the best western ever being "The Unforgiven" ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 3:19pm
| Yeah, I like all the old spaghetti westerns he did. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 3:26pm
Got me wires crossed, realised when I saw the post go up. My excuse is I just got out of bed You can tell what shows I watched as a kid------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 3:32pm
I could have been a brain surgeon or a nuclear physicist------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 4:02pm
| Yeah, I remember "Rawhide" , that goes way back, there was another similar show I barely recall called "Branded". |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 4:09pm
 We even watched Rin Tin Tin as well ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2011 at 4:11pm
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The main reason I remember "Branded" was because of that opening scene shown every week without fail, ha. Yes, there was Rin Tin Tin and Lassie, dogs were all the rage back then.
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Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 10:29am
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Gotta agree about "Unforgiven." One of those movies that I can come across halfway through and I end up watching it to the incredible ending even though I've seen it dozens of times. Best western ever...
------------- Make a joyful noise unto the Lord... |