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Aggressive free jazz

Printed From: JazzMusicArchives.com
Category: Jazz Music Lounges
Forum Name: Jazz Music Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific jazz music albums
URL: http://www.JazzMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2470
Printed Date: 04 Jul 2022 at 3:15pm
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Topic: Aggressive free jazz
Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Subject: Aggressive free jazz
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2013 at 9:46pm
Hello,

A quick history of my experience with free/avant/out jazz: The first album of it's ilk that I"ve bought was Peter Brotzmann's Machine Gun. I loved the way it felt like the music was a brick hitting me in the face 17 times a minute. So much sound. Unfortunately, I fear this has also spoiled me. No other free/etc jazz album has filled me with such feelings and ultimately I feel disappointed. Even other Brotzmann works I've heard, don't measure up in terms of visceral intensity. Thus...

I do quite like free jazz...but wish I knew more of it that was aggressive, in your face, destruction via sound type stuff. I can enjoy the quieter, more introspective side of free jazz...but what I really like and look for in free jazz is the opposite.

So I turn my eyes to you, all knowing, jazz loving populace of JMA. What can you recommend for me in terms of aggressive (Visceral, fiery, noisy, eardrum destroying) free jazz? (basically, in the Machine Gun Spirit)


(Note: I have explored the sub a bit and am familiar with some of the big guns [like Ayler's Spiritual Unity and Coltrane's noisier side]. However, please recommend anything...even if it seems obvious.)

Many thanks.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.



Replies:
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2013 at 10:38pm


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 2:33am
The new album by Merzbow, Gustafsson and Pandi, also the song "Atlantis" from the Sun Ra album of the same name.


Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 3:01am
Mats Gustafsson's The Thing:


Mats Gustafsson's Fire!:


Ken Vandermark:


Atomic: 



Alternatively, Marc Ducret:



Posted By: js
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 4:10am
Last Exit and certain albums by Sonny Sharrock.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Kazuhiro Kazuhiro wrote:





Mmmmm...that was excellent! Thanks.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

The new album by Merzbow, Gustafsson and Pandi, also the song "Atlantis" from the Sun Ra album of the same name.


I wasn't even aware of the first thing existing. That sounds absolutely wonderful. I'll certainly investigate.


Sun Ra I am also familiar with. I should go through more things that I have by him. That saxophone did get pretty screechy at times.


EDIT: Just so I don't have four posts in a row...thanks snobb. I'll get to those vids in due time.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

Last Exit and certain albums by Sonny Sharrock.


Ahh yes... Last Exit. I do have an album by them (Headfirst Into The Flames) I should dig it out and give it another listen. Thanks for the tip.

Also, what Sonny Sharrock albums would you recommend? (I've explored exactly zero of what he has done solo)

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2013 at 5:29am
Probably Sharrock's most intense work is with Last Exit, his albums can be sort of inconsistent.

"Atlantis" features some of Sun Ra's most intense electronic keyboard work, there is some of that on "Live at Montreaux" too. I have reviews up for both albums. "Montreaux" has everything from Duke Ellington played weird to pure high volume noise on the synthesizer and electric keyboards.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2013 at 7:43pm
^ Ahh. Well perhaps for the best as SS albums seem to be all sorts of out of print. I did find Ask The Ages on youtube, and while excellent, definitely not in the spirit of this thread.


I do need to go though all my Sun Ra again. I was quite a SR kick a couple of years ago. I actually bought LAM after becoming aware of it via your review. Unfortunately that was near the end of my SR kick and I never did actually listen to it. Will remedy soon...

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2013 at 8:41pm
@ Snobb: I've heard of The Thing but haven't had a chance to investigate past that. Any cds you recommend to start?

That Vandermark/Love Duo was pretty sweet too...especially the early part with both of them going full throttle. The only Vandermark I've heard was The Vandermark 5 which didn't foliate my bananas, if you catch my drift. Any recommendations here?

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2013 at 10:34pm
Everybody likes this scene from spongebob:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLSsWyh2QFw" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLSsWyh2QFw


Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2013 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Cannonball With Hat Cannonball With Hat wrote:

@ Snobb: I've heard of The Thing but haven't had a chance to investigate past that. Any cds you recommend to start?

That Vandermark/Love Duo was pretty sweet too...especially the early part with both of them going full throttle. The only Vandermark I've heard was The Vandermark 5 which didn't foliate my bananas, if you catch my drift. Any recommendations here?

Good place to start with The Thing (especially searching for music which could blow you away - physically) is their album "The Bag" from 2009 (BTW  engineered by Steve Albini)

 

You can hear all album here:

http://thingjazz.bandcamp.com/album/bag-it" rel="nofollow - http://thingjazz.bandcamp.com/album/bag-it


Not so familiar with Ken Vandermark all albums, know mostly his early works. BTW you can have The Thing and Vandermark "two in one" both on one album of the same name: 



You can listen all album here:

http://thingjazz.bandcamp.com/album/immediate-sound" rel="nofollow - http://thingjazz.bandcamp.com/album/immediate-sound


Posted By: pinknote
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2013 at 6:48am
Alan Silva and the Celestrial Communication Orchestra - Luna Surface
Dave Burrell - Echo

Maybe what you are looking for?...  or maybe not...


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2013 at 5:00pm
Ahh...great snobb. I'll check those out. Thanks


Originally posted by pinknote pinknote wrote:

Alan Silva and the Celestrial Communication Orchestra - Luna SurfaceDave Burrell - EchoMaybe what you are looking for?...  or maybe not...
   

I'll investigate these, thanks.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2013 at 8:28pm
I have limited knowledge, and you probably know these already, but Coltrane's late work, Sun Ra's stuff, Pat Metheny "X", and Sonny Sharrock fall into that category.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 3:15am
Oohh yes. I forgot about Pat's Song X. I'll have to see if I can find my copy.
 
Any specific SS albums you can recommend??


-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 4:26am
just my two cents (I believe Sharrock album's evaluation strongly depends on personal taste):

His debut is a bomb - avant-garde jazz of late 60s with screaming guitar, in some sense "Machine Gun" analog in States. Second - "Monkey-Pockey-Boo" - is very similar, but a bit secondary (as if "Machine Gun" was never released "Nipples" would be a masterpiece)."Paradise" is a weak point."Dance With Me Montana" is a change of direction and really strong album, just in different style. Instead of AG jazz of three previous albums you get here mix of jazz-rock,heavy funk and AG jazz. If you like this better, probably "Seize The Rainbow" is the best choice. His last album "Ask The Ages" is probably best combination of his all styles in one, in some sense return to roots (but you can't get back this late 60s atmosphere)


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 7:59am
I think the make or break on some of those early albums is whether or not you like the vocal improvisations, also I believe there is an album where Sharrock plays "free" slide whistle for a good part of the album, as opposed to guitar.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 6:52pm
I'll admit...the idea of free slide whistle does intrigue me.

But yes...finding samples from Black Woman and MPB I don't think they are my thing. I'll listen to songs at some point, but the snippets seemed not what I was looking for. And yes...the voice was no help. I'm not a fan of vocals in jazz...and these particular ones seemed to overshadow the music quite a bit.

I'll see if I can find something from STR.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2013 at 1:57am
and yes - if you want really destructive free attack - go for Japanese artists LOL

Sax Ruins are soft (and more jazzier form) :


Otomo Yoshihide is more radical



Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2013 at 7:19am
Originally posted by pinknote pinknote wrote:

Alan Silva and the Celestrial Communication Orchestra - Luna Surface
Dave Burrell - Echo

Maybe what you are looking for?...  or maybe not...

Silva's debut is a odd 28 minutes cacophony from great line-up - and I like it, but comparing with it "Machine Gun" is well-organized and structured high-energy album LOL


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2013 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by snobb snobb wrote:


and yes - if you want really destructive free attack - go for Japanese artists LOL
Sax Ruins are soft (and more jazzier form) :
Otomo Yoshihide is more radical



Ahh yeah...I have that Sax Ruins album actually and its quite excellent. I guess I always put it more in a rock context than a jazz one. But I'll give it a listen tonight still.

I'll look into that other one (as I quite enjoy all the players), thanks.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 7:52am
The Thing have lot of different collaboration releases, one more interesting one (if expensive, double vinyl release only) is their album "Metal!" with English bassist Barry Guy (album's title says all)



http://soundcloud.com/quinteroax/the-thing-with-barry-guy-ride" rel="nofollow - http://soundcloud.com/quinteroax/the-thing-with-barry-guy-ride


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Cannonball With Hat Cannonball With Hat wrote:

Originally posted by js js wrote:

Last Exit and certain albums by Sonny Sharrock.


Ahh yes... Last Exit. I do have an album by them (Headfirst Into The Flames) I should dig it out and give it another listen. Thanks for the tip.

Get the Last Exit s/t.  That's definitely among the most brutal albums I own.

Ever hear Brotzmann's Clarinet Project "Berlin Djungle"?  Zorn plays on it.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:


Originally posted by Cannonball With Hat Cannonball With Hat wrote:

Originally posted by js js wrote:

Last Exit and certain albums by Sonny Sharrock.


Ahh yes... Last Exit. I do have an album by them (Headfirst Into The Flames) I should dig it out and give it another listen. Thanks for the tip.

Get the Last Exit s/t.  That's definitely among the most brutal albums I own.
Ever hear Brotzmann's Clarinet Project "Berlin Djungle"?  Zorn plays on it.


I've heard Iron Gate and it was surprising not the clusterfuck of sound I was expecting. Is S/t more similar to MG or similar things?

And I haven't. I'll look for it.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2013 at 9:31pm
Also, whoever suggested The Thing probably got the closest to what I was looking for. Specifically thinking of their collab with Otomo Y (Shinjuku Crawl). Part One of that song is heavenly (a brutal heaven). Admittedly, other The Thing albums don't scratch this specific itch, but the ones I've heard at least are excellent.

Also, Ayler's Slug's Saloon is absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately, the recording quality is average at best (and fluctuates throughout) and even in its best moments the drums are horribly under recorded. If that existed in pristine (or at least 'fairly good) condition that would be a holy grail document IMHO.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: FromArmstrongtoZappa
Date Posted: 02 May 2013 at 1:14pm
I see there are some really great ideas for free jazz. www.wkcr.org plays a lot of free, intense on their jazz segments, usually Tuesdays at 6 p.m. Thursdays at noon. I'm listening now and there playing some hard stuff. I have Coltrane's Ascension which is an intense one for me. Also his Interstellar Space is out there.

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www.FromArmstrongtoZappa.blogspot.com


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 12 May 2013 at 12:36am
^ Thanks for that!

I've actually heard of that station before and listen regularly (or at least, as regularly as I listen to the radio). Quite enjoy the jazz and avant blocks they have.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 12 May 2013 at 12:38am
Also,

Just to keep this tread up to date, probably the best thing I've found in this realm is Charles Gayle, specifically the album Look Up. The first and last tracks are absolute gods of free jazz and really catures that raw, visceral intensity that I love. (Not that the other tracks are slouches of course)

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: Chozal
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 7:35pm
Hey there :3 sorry to revive an old thread, but I saw it in the upper ones and thought my guitar teacher could fit the bill. He made an album with Tony Malaby recently entitled Haptein.

Here are video excerpts from a Parisian gig they did :






Hope you'll like it :3



Posted By: js
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 8:31pm
Thanks for all that. 
If Richard Bonnet has any albums out under his name, we would be glad to add him to the site, let us know.


Posted By: Cannonball With Hat
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 10:16pm
Cool stuff Chozal. I'll listen to vids when I have the time, but thanks for posting.

-------------
Hit it on Five.

Saxophone Scatterbrain Blitzberg

Stab them in the ears.


Posted By: Chozal
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 9:31pm
I don't think his trio recorded an album yet, although a second album with Malaby, Tom Rainy and Anthony Rayonis in the works from what I heard ^^

Now i've got to contribute actual and non-promotional posts to the board :3



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