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Recommendations on Avant-garde jazz

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danielpgz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 4:23am
I'm not much of a specialist on the genre, but I would really like to know what groups/artists can you recommend me that play in a style influenced by 20th century concert music (Messiaen, Schöenberg, Takemitsu...) and that also doesn't include the classics, such as Cecil Taylor or Albert Ayler. I really like this kind of avant-garde jazz but I don't know many artists. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 6:26am
I like this mixture too, the first person that comes to mind is Gunther Schuller. Also, Anthony Braxton did a lot of work combining modern composition and jazz.
I'll try to think of some more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kazuhiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 7:00am
The album in ECM of Meredith Monk and Giya Kancheli might recollect it.
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danielpgz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danielpgz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 4:03pm
I've also read of John Zorn but haven't heard any of his music, what do you think?
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js View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 4:16pm
He is very eclectic, some of his albums are in the range of what you are talking about, but some others are not. You might want to try reviews of his albums on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danielpgz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 4:24pm
What I'd really like to find is something that is not so influenced in the "mainstream avant-garde"(if I'm allowed to coin this term), namely John Cage, Pierre Boulez or Karlheinz Stockhausen; but much more on Toru Takemitsu, Olivier Messiaen or György Ligeti. Thanks a lot for the other recommendations, I'm already listening to them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 4:39pm
There's an album composer Mimargilou (sp) did with Freddie Hubbard called "Sing me a song of Songmy" decidedly outsider AG.
Also Ornette Coleman's "Skies of America"
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danielpgz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danielpgz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 6:48pm
Both albums look great, thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 11:14pm
I just remembered a personal favorite, Milton Babbit's "All Set" for jazz ensemble.
Babbit was a great serial composer who also did commercial music on the side (musicals etc) this jazz piece seems to have a lot of humor to it, its jazz deconstructed and fragmented, excellent piece of music as is all of his music.


Edited by js - 28 Jul 2011 at 11:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 12:50pm
Henry Cow Wink
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js View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 5:00pm
^ Thats an avant-garde rock group, he's looking for concert hall composers mixed with jazz, at least as far as I understand so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2011 at 8:41am
Originally posted by js js wrote:

I like this mixture too, the first person that comes to mind is Gunther Schuller. Also, Anthony Braxton did a lot of work combining modern composition and jazz.
I'll try to think of some more.
Im really interested in this mix. that ALL SET album seems awesome from what Ive heard on youtube. But these 2 guys have hundreds of albums, and they go in and out of that avant garde/modern music/jazz mix, do you have any specific albums to recommend in that style? I'm really not interested in jazz standards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2011 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

^ Thats an avant-garde rock group, he's looking for concert hall composers mixed with jazz, at least as far as I understand so far.


Thus my wink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2011 at 3:30pm
Now you tell me. Wink
Of course Frith did have the composition chair at Mills College (previously held by Milhaud and Terry Riley) so maybe that was legit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henry Plainview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2011 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by danielpgz danielpgz wrote:

I've also read of John Zorn but haven't heard any of his music, what do you think?

I can't think of any Zorn that would really fit your description. He's very eclectic, but as far as I know his chamber music is very much "straight" 20th century classical and does have much to do with free jazz. You might still like him, although I've mostly gone off him personally. 

Man, I haven't been thinking about free jazz enough lately, I'm having trouble thinking of things. Of course, Anthony Braxton is the go-to guy for combining free jazz and academic music, but I'm as baffled by his massive discography as you are (and the one album I am familiar with, For Alto, is excellent but not what you're looking for). You might be interested in Architeuthis Walks on Land and Minamo. He played with Cecil Taylor for many years, but Jimmy Lyons' albums with his wife Karen Borca might satisfy your Messaien sounds, she plays bassoon. I'm not very familiar with the works of 20th century classical composers so I can't say how they fit into that.  

Edited by Henry Plainview - 04 Aug 2011 at 8:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2011 at 9:36am
Originally posted by danielpgz danielpgz wrote:

I've also read of John Zorn but haven't heard any of his music, what do you think?
If your looking for something Messiaen-esque, get his MAGICK album. It's chamber music in the same vein. No jazz though. Personnally, I stick to his chamber music, which is hit and miss, rather than his jazz, that only misses as far as I'm concerned
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2011 at 1:04pm
Not sure based on your specifications.

Maybe you'd enjoy Sun Ra?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2011 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by danielpgz danielpgz wrote:

I've also read of John Zorn but haven't heard any of his music, what do you think?
If your looking for something Messiaen-esque, get his MAGICK album. It's chamber music in the same vein. No jazz though.


That's news to me.

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danielpgz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danielpgz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2011 at 6:38pm
Thanks a lot to everyone. What about japanese jazz musicians? In the vein of avant-garde jazz
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js View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2011 at 6:43pm
Check our list of artists with AG releases. A person's place of origin is usually listed by each name. I know we have at least a few Japanese artists in the AG section, and more on the way I am sure.
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