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Anything similar to Bitches Brew?
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Why has BB nothing to do with actual fusion? That is new to me. 
well, NOTHING is a slight exageration, but the fact that we're having a hard time finding anything similar is a good indication that the average fusion band in the 70's didn't follow the basic archetypes set by Bitches Brew
 
First off, I'd want to say that that when BB was released, it was not called fusion, but jazz-rock..the word fusion came a little later, 74 or 75 if I remember well.
 
And just because we can't find something closely similar to BB doesn't mean much (name me one album that is similar to St Pepper, Zoso (Zep IV), or In The Court Of Crimson King (not counting Poseidon).... none right???
 
First, such iconic albums were so highly regarded, that no-one would've dared really approaching BB in terms of copying... Aesthetically I think most artistes back then would've committed suicide by duplicating it, except maube Miles himself.... And when one knows how he hated to stagnate ... (I mean even the twin-sister album Big Fun (recorded in the same months, sometimes even the same sessions, but released three years later, is completely different, including Indian instruments)...
 
Sooo even the numerous collabs that did play on BB just inspired themselves of where BB left things at >>> Remember there was a whole new continent to explore back then, so no-one would've thought of duplicating exactly the sound (which was most likely a spur-of-the-moment thing
 
Despite this, many trad-jazz musos jumped on the jazz-rock bandwagon (not only Don Byrd for ex, but Sonny Rollins, etc...).... and the public wasn't fooled, for a minute.... Ethiopian Knights , although excellent, most likely didn't achieve a tenth of BB's sales back then, but even less so nowadays... because it's just kind of forgotten by everyone but a few of us irreductibles/ inveterates....
 
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - 23 Jul 2011 at 2:30am
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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seb2112 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

We didn't have a hard time finding similar stuff, it was you who rejected all those good recommendations. LOL
Hahaha you do have a good point. My recommandation threads should all start with a I'M A PICKY BASTARD disclaimer. All my friends have given up on recommending music to me... which is probably why I have to turn to on line forums.
 
Know that I do appreciate the effort of anyone who attempted to make me discover a new band/artist.
 
How I got my IPOD to 5000 songs with my pickyness I will never know...
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seb2112 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Why has BB nothing to do with actual fusion? That is new to me. 
well, NOTHING is a slight exageration, but the fact that we're having a hard time finding anything similar is a good indication that the average fusion band in the 70's didn't follow the basic archetypes set by Bitches Brew
 
First off, I'd want to say that that when BB was released, it was not called fusion, but jazz-rock..the word fusion came a little later, 74 or 75 if I remember well.
 
And just because we can't find something closely similar to BB doesn't mean much (name me one album that is similar to St Pepper, Zoso (Zep IV), or In The Court Of Crimson King (not counting Poseidon).... none right???
 
First, such iconic albums were so highly regarded, that no-one would've dared really approaching BB in terms of copying... Aesthetically I think most artistes back then would've committed suicide by duplicating it, except maube Miles himself.... And when one knows how he hated to stagnate ... (I mean even the twin-sister album Big Fun (recorded in the same months, sometimes even the same sessions, but released three years later, is completely different, including Indian instruments)...
 
Sooo even the numerous collabs that did play on BB just inspired themselves of where BB left things at >>> Remember there was a whole new continent to explore back then, so no-one would've thought of duplicating exactly the sound (which was most likely a spur-of-the-moment thing
 
Despite this, many trad-jazz musos jumped on the jazz-rock bandwagon (not only Don Byrd for ex, but Sonny Rollins, etc...).... and the public wasn't fooled, for a minute.... Ethiopian Knights , although excellent, most likely didn't achieve a tenth of BB's sales back then, but even less so nowadays... because it's just kind of forgotten by everyone but a few of us irreductibles/ inveterates....
 
 
 
I agree with everything you said. My point is simply that although BB was fusion/jazz-rock's starting point, in retrospect, it doesn't sound like the typical sound the 70's band later developped into traditional, typical jazz fusion. It's not a bad thing, it just means that when one has a craving for BB styled music, you don't have a whole lot of albums to turn to.
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Abraxas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Why has BB nothing to do with actual fusion? That is new to me. 

I was referring stylistically speaking, and "actual fusion" I meant the popular fusion wave of Mahavishnu, mid/late Weather Report, RtF and Hancock's Headhunters, amongst others. 

I'm not denying that BItches Brew was like the main factor for all those things to happen, but one really can't point out something from Mahavishnu on Bitches Brew, except the guitar lines.
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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^ Agreed, but that doesn't mean "nothing to do" either.

I'll come back with a recommendation in a minute, to bring the thread on topic. :D
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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you permission denied error Angry
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Retro-jazz rock!!! TongueLOL
 
Man this was enjoyable.... Could be my best 2011 release with VdGG.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Tortoise meets Miles meets Ash Ra Tempel Wink
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seb2112 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

you permission denied error Angry






Now THIS is what I was looking for! It's got that BB feel but with a modern twist, love it! Thanks!
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Stooge View Drop Down
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^ ^

Never heard them before.  Add them to my "want list". Smile
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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^ Cool! It's an excellent album, go for it. Smile Two or three more couples off it can be found on YouTube.

BTW I was sure I'm going to be cruficied for this suggestion. Tongue
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seb2112 View Drop Down
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set my IPOD to random and was reminded of a band to mention here, Agora, its like a Canterburry version of the BB feel. Well worth checking out
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seb2112 View Drop Down
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Just got Miles' AGHARTA album, and it is also excellent, although not in the exacte vein of BB. Still gotta listen to Dark Magus and Pangaea
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darkshade View Drop Down
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Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Just got Miles' AGHARTA album, and it is also excellent, although not in the exacte vein of BB. Still gotta listen to Dark Magus and Pangaea


Based on what you said, you'll probably enjoy Dark Magus much more than Agharta or Pangaea. DM as more attitude.
My Last.fm
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seb2112 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Just got Miles' AGHARTA album, and it is also excellent, although not in the exacte vein of BB. Still gotta listen to Dark Magus and Pangaea


Based on what you said, you'll probably enjoy Dark Magus much more than Agharta or Pangaea. DM as more attitude.
Finally got around to listening to the otrher 2 albums today. Although Dark Magus is a very good album, I still preffer Agharta. Don't know why, it just sounds more cohesive than the other 2 albums. But all 3 are welcomed additions to my IPOD
 
But get back to the original topic, neither album has that epic feel I find in Bitches Brew. I guess BB is a unique album and I'll always have to turn to that specific album to get my fix, like Ornette Coleman's OF HUMAN FEELINGS and Milton Babbitt\s ALL SET
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Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

You won't find a carbon-copy of Bitches Brew anywhere.

But I think you should insist with listening more to the Mwandishi albums, In a Silent Way by Miles, as well as Big Fun and Get Up With It. Also, Weather Report's debut and I Sing the Body Electric.


These are what I was going to suggest. I think the WR being "smooth" comment might come from the prominence of Shorter's soprano playing, which was significantly less essential on BB. Unfortunately, thanks to the damnable Kenny G, very few people in this day and age can hear the soprano sax without thinking cheesy smooth jazz. I remember that was even my first reaction (which I have since overcome, thankfully).
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Originally posted by MilesBeyond MilesBeyond wrote:

Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

You won't find a carbon-copy of Bitches Brew anywhere.

But I think you should insist with listening more to the Mwandishi albums, In a Silent Way by Miles, as well as Big Fun and Get Up With It. Also, Weather Report's debut and I Sing the Body Electric.


These are what I was going to suggest. I think the WR being "smooth" comment might come from the prominence of Shorter's soprano playing, which was significantly less essential on BB. Unfortunately, thanks to the damnable Kenny G, very few people in this day and age can hear the soprano sax without thinking cheesy smooth jazz. I remember that was even my first reaction (which I have since overcome, thankfully).
Nah it's not that, I just found it too upbeat and catchy for my tastes. Maybe I haven't heard the right tracks, post a couple of your favs and I'll give them a good listen
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Abraxas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by MilesBeyond MilesBeyond wrote:

Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

You won't find a carbon-copy of Bitches Brew anywhere.

But I think you should insist with listening more to the Mwandishi albums, In a Silent Way by Miles, as well as Big Fun and Get Up With It. Also, Weather Report's debut and I Sing the Body Electric.


These are what I was going to suggest. I think the WR being "smooth" comment might come from the prominence of Shorter's soprano playing, which was significantly less essential on BB. Unfortunately, thanks to the damnable Kenny G, very few people in this day and age can hear the soprano sax without thinking cheesy smooth jazz. I remember that was even my first reaction (which I have since overcome, thankfully).
Nah it's not that, I just found it too upbeat and catchy for my tastes. Maybe I haven't heard the right tracks, post a couple of your favs and I'll give them a good listen
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Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Nah it's not that, I just found it too upbeat and catchy for my tastes. Maybe I haven't heard the right tracks, post a couple of your favs and I'll give them a good listen


Hmmm, what WR have you listened to? I had a similar impression of their Heavy Weather era stuff, but I Sing the Body Electric is a different league entirely.




Edited by MilesBeyond - 13 Aug 2011 at 7:11pm
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Supersilent - 5
Isotope 217 - Utonian Automatic
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