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Anything similar to Bitches Brew? |
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seb2112 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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set my IPOD to random and was reminded of a band to mention here, Agora, its like a Canterburry version of the BB feel. Well worth checking out
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harmonium.ro ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478 |
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^ Cool! It's an excellent album, go for it.
![]() BTW I was sure I'm going to be cruficied for this suggestion. ![]() |
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Stooge ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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^ ^
Never heard them before. Add them to my "want list".
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seb2112 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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harmonium.ro ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478 |
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Tortoise meets Miles meets Ash Ra Tempel
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Sean Trane ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Apr 2011 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 789 |
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Retro-jazz rock!!!
![]() ![]() Man this was enjoyable.... Could be my best 2011 release with VdGG.
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my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....
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harmonium.ro ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478 |
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harmonium.ro ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478 |
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^ Agreed, but that doesn't mean "nothing to do" either.
I'll come back with a recommendation in a minute, to bring the thread on topic. :D |
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Abraxas ![]() JMA Collaborator ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1251 |
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I was referring stylistically speaking, and "actual fusion" I meant the popular fusion wave of Mahavishnu, mid/late Weather Report, RtF and Hancock's Headhunters, amongst others. I'm not denying that BItches Brew was like the main factor for all those things to happen, but one really can't point out something from Mahavishnu on Bitches Brew, except the guitar lines.
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seb2112 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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I agree with everything you said. My point is simply that although BB was fusion/jazz-rock's starting point, in retrospect, it doesn't sound like the typical sound the 70's band later developped into traditional, typical jazz fusion. It's not a bad thing, it just means that when one has a craving for BB styled music, you don't have a whole lot of albums to turn to.
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seb2112 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Know that I do appreciate the effort of anyone who attempted to make me discover a new band/artist.
How I got my IPOD to 5000 songs with my pickyness I will never know...
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Sean Trane ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Apr 2011 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 789 |
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First off, I'd want to say that that when BB was released, it was not called fusion, but jazz-rock..the word fusion came a little later, 74 or 75 if I remember well.
And just because we can't find something closely similar to BB doesn't mean much (name me one album that is similar to St Pepper, Zoso (Zep IV), or In The Court Of Crimson King (not counting Poseidon).... none right???
First, such iconic albums were so highly regarded, that no-one would've dared really approaching BB in terms of copying... Aesthetically I think most artistes back then would've committed suicide by duplicating it, except maube Miles himself.... And when one knows how he hated to stagnate ... (I mean even the twin-sister album Big Fun (recorded in the same months, sometimes even the same sessions, but released three years later, is completely different, including Indian instruments)...
Sooo even the numerous collabs that did play on BB just inspired themselves of where BB left things at >>> Remember there was a whole new continent to explore back then, so no-one would've thought of duplicating exactly the sound (which was most likely a spur-of-the-moment thing
Despite this, many trad-jazz musos jumped on the jazz-rock bandwagon (not only Don Byrd for ex, but Sonny Rollins, etc...).... and the public wasn't fooled, for a minute.... Ethiopian Knights , although excellent, most likely didn't achieve a tenth of BB's sales back then, but even less so nowadays... because it's just kind of forgotten by everyone but a few of us irreductibles/ inveterates....
Edited by Sean Trane - 23 Jul 2011 at 2:30am |
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my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....
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harmonium.ro ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478 |
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We didn't have a hard time finding similar stuff, it was you who rejected all those good recommendations.
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seb2112 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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well, NOTHING is a slight exageration, but the fact that we're having a hard time finding anything similar is a good indication that the average fusion band in the 70's didn't follow the basic archetypes set by Bitches Brew
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Kazuhiro ![]() Forum Admin Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Status: Offline Points: 3776 |
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Perhaps, I think that Miles Davis created music by the dimension that exceeds even the subgenre.
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harmonium.ro ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478 |
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Why has BB nothing to do with actual fusion? That is new to me.
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Abraxas ![]() JMA Collaborator ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1251 |
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^of course that Bitches Brew has nothing to do with "actual fusion". Davis mainly relied in improvisation simplifying things, so that's why I and others say that early Weather Report and early Hancock are the most similar fusion acts to Davis. They also followed Davis' improvisational idea.
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seb2112 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Ok let's word it like this then. Although Bitches Brew started fusion, it has little to do with the bands that would later popularize the term FUSION by playing jazz-rock.
And Vossabrygg did not impress me. Although it is similar to bitches brew, to me at least, it sounds amateurish in it's feeble attempt to re-create the same atmosphere
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Dick Heath ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Jul 2011 Location: Loughborough UK Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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[QUOTE]
Now a lot of people call Bitches Brew the first fusion album because of it's use of electric instruments,
[QUOTE]
We went through this debate 10 years ago at Prog Archives, and if anybody cares to do some research then this statement falls apart. MIles Davis took an underground music making it more popular by taking it temporarily overground to big audiences. The second episode of the Jazz Britannia series on BBC TV a few years back suggested jazz rock fusion goes back to ~63 with the likes of Graham Bond and Georgie Fame - which I find is pushing it . (Indeed when did the genre of rock get separated from rock'n'roll?). Stuart Nicholson in his excellent book on the subject, Jazz Rock: A History reviews American jazz rock pre-1965 - the Miles Davis chapter is several into the book.
I suspect Miles davis was too impatient to record the same sort of music twice, but I did have a go trying find something similar to Bitches, and one of the belatedly issued live at Fillmore recorded about the time of Bitches' releases, may be as close as you can get..
I think after MIles' death Tony Williams gathered a number of former Davis sidemen together for a MIles Tribute, with Wallace Rooney taking MIles role.
Vossabrygg is supposed to be Bitches Brew influenced, but with the several of musicans involved having said Miles was a godfather to nu.fusion, then it is tless surprising that this is a nu.fusion take.
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seb2112 ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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