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Frank Zappa - Roxy & Elsewhere

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darkshade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Frank Zappa - Roxy & Elsewhere
    Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 3:54pm
i noticed this live album is missing from FZ's discography. Probably his best jazz-rock album.

also, is there a way to change an album's genre label? (Besides Zappa, i noticed a bunch of albums are mis-labeled (whether in my opinion or general acceptance)) or does it have to be approved?
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js View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 5:44pm
You should be able to add albums yourself., let me know if you can't.
For now, give me a short list of genre suggestions and I'll change them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 7:51pm
Most of FZ's albums are listed as Jazz Related Rock, with Waka Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo the only ones listed as Classic Fusion

i would say that these albums should be changed to Classic Fusion

Hot Rats (1969)
One Size Fits All (1975)
Make A Jazz Noise Here (1991) (this could also fall under avant-garde jazz)
Imaginary Diseases (2006)
Wazoo (2007)
One Shot Deal (2008)

there are jazz moments sprinkled throughout most of his discography, but i think those are the ones that should be changed. Maybe Zappa New York and Lather too, but they're more like half and half...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 7:58pm
still getting used to the site. I added R&E just fine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 8:33pm
First of all, thanks  a lot for jumping in and helping out.
I checked your recommendations. I'm following some of them,  You might want to check our definition of Classic Fusion. A lot of what would be called fusion at PA would fit our Jazz-Related Rock genre.

Basically Classic Fusion is for jazz musicians playing rock, and Jazz Related Rock, or JR Rock, is for rock musicians playing jazz.
Zappa is a rock musician, but he works with so many jazz musicians that he sometimes crosses into Classic Fusion, same for Jeff Beck and Santana.

I'm moving Hot Rats, Wazoo and Imaginary Diseases to Classic Fusion, but the others will stay in JR Rock.

Thanks again and let me know any other suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 8:40pm
No problem Thumbs Up

that's fine and i agree. But what about Make A Jazz Noise Here? it's 90% instrumental, lots of improv and jazzy moments, much of it avant-garde. Either way, i would leave Roxy & Elsewhere under Classic Fusion, i always saw that album under the same light as other classic fusion albums from other artists at that time.

but anyway, now i understand, and i can see why OSFA and the others would stay under jazz-related rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 9:07pm
OK, you win, I'll move Make a Jazz Noise also. It seemed like a borderline case anyway.

I love 'One Size..' by the way, you can read my glowing 5 star review, ha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 9:15pm
I still think of 'Roxy and Elsewhere' as a JR Rock album, but since you went through the work of adding it and its been a while since I listened to it, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll have to check it out again someday.

Our Classic Fusion section is pretty pure with the jazz, its all Tony Williams, Chick Corea, etc. Its nothing like the fusion section at PA, which has a lot of jazzy rock records that wouldn't belong in our Classic Fusion section.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kazuhiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

I still think of 'Roxy and Elsewhere' as a JR Rock album, but since you went through the work of adding it and its been a while since I listened to it, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll have to check it out again someday.

Our Classic Fusion section is pretty pure with the jazz, its all Tony Williams, Chick Corea, etc. Its nothing like the fusion section at PA, which has a lot of jazzy rock records that wouldn't belong in our Classic Fusion section.
 
I agree to this opinion. FZ is in the section of ZART in PA now. However, the quality and recognition will change if FZ passes the filter of JMA.
As for FZ, if the definition of recognition of Jazz/Fusion and classic Fusion is considered in a broad sense, the element of rock might be strong. Classic fusion will often cooperate with Pop Jazz/Crossover. John has already explained the meaning.
Best Band and Broadway are sound sources of the tour of the same time and the same member if original. And, the element of rock is felt strong by me as for the music character of Roxy. The discretion of the album tag of the unit looks good as a charm of JMA. And, an individual at the same time recognition and discussion might increase, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2011 at 11:59pm
i always felt Roxy had this classic fusion sound (ala RTF, WR, MO, HH, Lifetime, etc..) blended with the classic 70s Zappa sound. George Duke and Bruce Fowler really make that happen.

As far as Broadway and Best Band; they are the same lineup i believe, but there is more emphasis on his more rock compositions, with some jazzy embellishments. I think there is an equal amount of humor on all 3 albums (though Broadway can be too much)

anyway, im cool with however the labels go. When this site grows Im sure there will be much more discussion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2011 at 10:23am
I re-listened Roxy... today just because of this discussion LOL (I didn't listen it for years), and I found there more or less what I expected to find: Zappa's early years (and Mothers..) Rock Circus. Eclectic mix of blues-rock, heavy funk ,jazz-rock and theatrics/cabaret. Possibly main difference with studio albums is there are longer versions of the same songs presented, with plenty of instrumental jamming. Even if part of it is obviously jazz-rock (especially George Duke and brass soloing), album in whole hardly sounds as jazz fusion concert , isn't it? Too noisy, too much shredding and jamming, plenty of blues/rock and just some jazz-rock moments. Evaluating song-by-song it would be possibly to find some jazz-rock compositions, but as whole album IMO it could be hardly tagged as jazz fusion album . Just my opinion Smile

Edited by snobb - 11 Mar 2011 at 1:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2011 at 11:15am
^ yeah, thats what I thought based on distant memories. I'll change Roxy to JR Rock, but I'll keep the other suggestions as Classic Fusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2011 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by snobb snobb wrote:

I re-listed Roxy... today just because of this discussion LOL (I didn't listen it for years), and I found there more or less what I expected to find: Zappa's early years (and Mothers..) Rock Circus. Eclectic mix of blues-rock, heavy funk ,jazz-rock and theatrics/cabaret. Possibly main difference with studio albums is there are longer versions of the same songs presented, with plenty of instrumental jamming. Even if part of it is obviously jazz-rock (especially George Duke and brass soloing), album in whole hardly sounds as jazz fusion concert , isn't it? Too noisy, too much shredding and jamming, plenty of blues/rock and just some jazz-rock moments. Evaluating song-by-song it would be possibly to find some jazz-rock compositions, but as whole album IMO it could be hardly tagged as jazz fusion album . Just my opinion Smile


years huh? how was it otherwise?

i had a similar situation with The Grand Wazoo (listened to it today for the first time in about 3 years)


Edited by darkshade - 10 Mar 2011 at 9:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2011 at 1:31am
Great early-Zappa's live album, great sound,he talks a lot ... During some last years I listen more often his a bit more radical works though LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2011 at 12:01pm
like Jazz From Hell? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2011 at 1:18pm
Absolutely, one of the best Zappa's album for me Big smile
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