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Jazz Antifanariot corrections

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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 May 2011 at 4:28am
The album is here: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/johnny-raducanu--jazz-antifanariot.aspx

Please change the category from "album" to "live"; it's a concert recording. Also, the release year is 2003.

Also, please change track 1 from 1. Autumnala to 1. Autumnală.

Line-up:

- Johnny Răducanu / piano

Release information:

Fundaţia Anastasia, 2003. Recorded in December 20, 2002, at a concert in memoriam of Horia Bernea, at the Romanian Peasant's Museum in Bucharest.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 4:30am
Also, did anyone hear music from this album to assign it to hard bop, or was it an automatical assignement? I have uploaded the album on YT so I can provide samples if needed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 4:41am
done

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 4:43am
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Also, did anyone hear music from this album to assign it to hard bop, or was it an automatical assignement? I have uploaded the album on YT so I can provide samples if needed. 


This artist was cleared for addition as hard-bop musician, so initially all his albums, imported from MB come under that tag. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 4:45am
OK, I'll post a representative sample later. This album was not one of the albums I sampled in the suggestion thread, so it's possible that it is not hard bop. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 6:12am
Here's a representative track:



Sounds to me (?) like a mix of third stream (Keith Jarrett), ethnic tunes and ragtime.

Besides this track, there are three tracks that are ragtime (26 minutes in total) and two that are "clean" third stream (10 minutes).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 6:40am
Thanks Alex, I'll check that out and let you know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 6:43am
I think 3rd Stream is probably the best compromise for this album.
Interestingly enough, Ragtime itself is more of a composed American classical music than it is jazz, it just so happens that the early jazz musicians borrowed much from Ragtime, hence its long association with jazz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 6:47am
By the way, regarding his default tag of Hard Bop; I recall this guy's music as being all over the place and fixing an overall genre tag was near impossible, he did go through an extended Hard Bop phase at some point as I recall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 6:59am
Thanks John. Thumbs Up I didn't yet know that the default genre tag is applied automatically to all the imported albums.

Any album you could suggest for an entrance to ragtime?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 7:19am
Oh I didn't listen to all of his albums.
Ragtime is a fairly easy genre to figure out. Go on youtube or something like that and check out some Scott Joplin tunes, they're all kind of similar to modern ears.
Also, generally there is no soloing in Ragtime, they just play the tune a few times and that's it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 9:13am
You know, I was thinking Raducanu played stride and early swing, but not  ragtime, I may be wrong, do you have some examples to post here by any chance?

Edited by js - 12 May 2011 at 9:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 9:26am
Well, one of the tracks on this album is called "Ragtimes for Bernea" (Bernea being the person to which the concert was dedicated "in memoriam"), here it is:




The other two tracks that sound like it:





If that's not ragtime then it's all Johnny's fault! LOLTongue


Edited by harmonium.ro - 12 May 2011 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 9:43am
The first cut is a modernized form of Ragtime, that is why Raducanu called that cut a rag, he's being anachronistic on purpose, but the next two are hybrids that mix Stride, Swing and even some modern Post-Bop harmonies.

To modern ears, stride and ragtime can sound similar. Stride has a lot of its roots in ragtime, but stride is not near as strict and is a lot bluesier and more free-flowing than ragtime.
Pure ragtime is very straightforward, its just a tune played correctly, usually thats all, but stride is a lot jazzier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 9:55am
Technically you could call that first piece a 3rd Stream composition that uses ragtime as its basis, composers like William Grant Still and George Gershwin also wrote modern 'rags' that were far more developed than the rags of the late 19th century, which is similar to what Raducanu is doing in his rag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 9:57am
Interesting.

I remember looking once over the Stride Piano definition because I'd never heard about it before, but I'll have to go back to read it again as I don't remember much.

When you say that you hear some post-bop in one of the cuts, that's because he inserts a theme from one of his 60s/70s fusion/hard-bop records. Probably it sounds like post-bop when played at piano solo only, and in this manner.

For the record, here are the two remaining tracks from the album, which are more third-stream oriented:




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 10:34am
The deal with Raducanu is he so freely mixes influences that easy classification is not always "easy".

That first cut has a big intro with lots of classical influence and then goes into a sophisticated swing tune with some classical flourishes.
The second is also a swing tune, but with a lot more classical influence in its execution.
I don't think it would be a crime to call these pieces 3rd Stream, but a lot of old jazzers would probably call the first one swing and probably the second one too.

Its not uncommon for great swing players to include classical elements, they seem to love Chopin.

Its hard to draw the line between sophisticated swing with classical influences and 3rd Stream.
I tagged the Hancock/Corea double piano concert as 3rd Stream, but I bet a lot of people would disagree with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 11:17am
Swing, eh? Again, something that didn't cross my mind. I easily recognize swing when it comes via a band, especially violin/guitar/sax lead, but apparently not via solo piano. Hmm... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 11:22am
Art Tatum is probably your best source for early swing piano.
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