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Rokukai View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 4:02pm
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/vassar-clements-mn0000245039
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 4:15pm
Whats up Wade, you been hittin on some moonshine or somethin. Wink

Let me talk to our resident country expert and see how many other artists would be considered for inclusion if we added Clements.
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Points: 2527 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 5:16pm
He is known in Bluegrass primarily. Actually  recorded on David Grisman's label  "Acoustic Disc" near the end. If we let him in, Bill Monroe and Flat and Scruggs are next. Vassar played with Bill early days. Fantastic fiddle player. David Grisman specialises in old Timey and Bluegrass but is known to do improvised style albums. Jerry Garcia ( Grateful Dead) loved Bluegrass and appears with him on some of his productions which are all acoustic. I have Vassar's last album "Livin' The Blues" as well as a few off David Grisman. Also have all of the material with Bill Monroe. He was a member Of John Hartford's band and recorded "Aereo Plain" one of John Hartford's best albums.

Edited by Matt - 18 Jul 2012 at 5:16pm
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 5:23pm
^ yeah, that pretty much sums up what I was thinking, we're going to wait on that whole bunch for now, basically it calls for creating a genre that we have discussed before, Jazz Related Country/Folk.
We aren't going to make that genre yet, but maybe someday. There are some elements of country that seem the opposite of jazz to me, the simpler harmonies (jazz is 7 chords, country is triads,its a very different sound), and some of the rhythms, but we try to be open-minded here, so once we catch up on a lot of other stuff, maybe we'll try this country jazz genre. Violin
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 5:24pm
Now I'm off to play music with a bunch of country bumpkins Ermm
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Points: 2527 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 5:52pm

If and when that happens John.....Bill Monroe first LOL I love him.
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 9:49pm
He's a pickin and you're a grinnin Big smile
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Points: 51 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rokukai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 11:41pm
if Bela Fleck is in, Vassar Clements is in. Period.
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Points: 51 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rokukai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2012 at 11:44pm
JS, I don't think you or your team has listened to enough of his work. If he's in, Bob Wills is in, that's about it.
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David Grisman too maybe
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 1:58am
Of the people you've mentioned, Grisman has the most jazz, and some similarities to Fleck.

Vassar has some records that are similar to Wills, and some that are more pure country. 
Bob Wills music has a lot of jazz to it, although they call it western swing, he has more jazz than others in that genre.
All the same, we have come close to pulling Wills off of the site, its been debated before. 



Edited by js - 19 Jul 2012 at 2:50am
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I think what we are going to do is add Grisman and Clements eventually, because they both play jazz sometimes, but we are not going to add a new genre. More than likely another genre will be expanded to include some country-jazz. This is something that requires help from the site owner, so be patient.



Edited by js - 19 Jul 2012 at 3:24am
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Let me ask this, so we can see where this might be heading, what other artists out there are similar to Grisman and Clements?
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From memory I'd say John Hartford, Peter Rowan, Mike Auldridge, Sam Bush, Norman Blake, and Tim Rice. There's also more folk oriented artists that sound jazzy like Robbie Basho and Sandy Bull.

Thanks for being cool about this JS, I don't want to argue or get into a heated debate or anything, I just believe Clements deserves a spot if Fleck is in and the Talking Heads are as well. Of course it's difficult to compare Clements with the Heads but, personally, I hear tons more jazz in all of Clements work than any of the Talking Heads recordings.
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Points: 51 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rokukai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 4:29am
Oh right and who is the master dobro player jerry douglas might be his name--he plays great jazz inflected country
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 8:46am
Talking Heads ????  aint no Talking heads on this site and there never will be, ha ha. Someone else on this site keeps saying we have Chic on here. I'm not sure where these bands are hiding. Wink

Probably comparing against artists already here is not the best way to go. Best way to judge an artist is listen to the music and say, "Is this jazz?" Every artist has to stand on their own regardless of who may already be here.

Anyway, I also agree with Sandy Bull, I'd have to look at the others. the other solution is that basically when guys like Clements and Grisman play jazz, they are usually playing a type of Swing. We may just add their jazz records under Swing. Lert me check out some of these others and see what they are like. Everyone will not be added at once of course. We're not going to drop all other jazz additions to just focus on country-fried artists. Wink


Edited by js - 19 Jul 2012 at 8:49am
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 9:15am
Of all the artists mentioned, probably the ones with the most jazz are Grisman, Clements and Sandy Bull. They will be added in time. All the others seem to be more about progressive and eclectic bluegrass and country music, not jazz.

If there is any comparing to be made, we are more inclined to compare against other musicological resources. I seriously doubt any other music resource is going to tag those artists as jazz, instead of country or bluegrass. 
We will be adding Grisman, Clements and Sandy Bull, but not all at once. We have a lot of "jazz" artists to add too. Wink


Edited by js - 19 Jul 2012 at 9:16am
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I look forward to their additions. I was wrong about the Talking Heads, I think I was confusing this site with the progressive site.
Hey, I do judge the music by sitting and listening to it, which is exactly why I think Clements belongs. I was comparing artists to illustrate who I believe should be included on the site. Bela Fleck also mines the progressive bluegrass genre, why is he on here and nobody else is included?

Just go ahead then an substitute Santana for the Talking Heads from my previous statement. Santana is "rock" like you say Clements is "country". Sure he did a handful of fusion albums but he is a latin rock musician with strains of jazz, blues, and salsa in his music. Clements and Wills have oriented those same strains into their music, and have done "jazz" albums, therefore they deserve inclusion.
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Points: 34156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2012 at 12:48pm
If someone plays jazz, we want them on the site. To sum up again, here is what we will be adding:
Lots of Grisom's records can go in Swing.
Some of Clements records can go in Swing
Some of Sandy Bull's records probably fit World Fusion

From everyone mentioned, these are the only artists I hear playing jazz, so the others will not be added. Hopefully that wraps everything up and I can get back to work. Wink

Thanks for the suggestions!
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Originally posted by Rokukai Rokukai wrote:

if Bela Fleck is in, Vassar Clements is in. Period.
 
That's more or less my take on it, although I'm much less familar with Clements' stuff...
 
There are some surprising stuff in the Bluegrass area... I'm also discovering Redneck Jazz (yup, I didn't want to believ that existed (outside KKK membrs hanging strange fruits to roast from burning crosses with playing those Aryan chants with brass arrangements)LOL... But nothing of the sort, though... But redneck jazz is interesting
 
I'm on a Flecktone p^hase right nowSax man


Edited by Sean Trane - 19 Jul 2012 at 3:16pm
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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