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Hard bop or hardly bop?

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liontime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 10:24am
Good to know! The third track, Euterpe, is particularly interesting with (what I believe to be) a modal baseline throughout. Don't know if that would push it over to AG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 10:28am
No, generally modal isn't AG, we tend to define AG as atonal, or mostly atonal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 10:32am
Originally posted by js js wrote:

No, generally modal isn't AG, we tend to define AG as atonal, or mostly atonal.

You might enjoy checking out this thread:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 11:40am
Thanks for the link! Very helpful actually. I don't think Contours ever really gets atonal, but it's not all that straightforward either. Pretty cool album! Hard to classify haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 11:42am
What about Jackie Mclean's album One Step Beyond? Seems like the title would suggest post bop but it walks that line really carefully.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 12:12pm
^ that one sounds like sort of 'out there' hard bop, but I think hard bop is still the best tag for that one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 12:45pm
Fair enough I think you're right. In my personal collection I have it tagged as post bop mostly cause of the packaging
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 12:56pm
There isn't necessarily one correct tag for an album, I think post bop would be a legitimate tag for that album.
By the way, I don't get the cover for that album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 2:08pm
Oh wow, until this very moment I always just assumed it was him standing on a ship's mast or something. Upon closer examination... I'm not sure if that's him or not. And it looks like he's standing in front of some antennas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 3:03pm
I guess that is Jackie, I always assumed Jackie was black.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 3:25pm
Actually, I guess he is racially mixed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 5:37pm
That's kinda what I thought but I never saw any information before. Where did you see that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 6:10pm
Just looking at his face, I really don't know, but he looks like a racially mixed person. Either way, he is one hell of saxophone player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 7:14pm
True enough!! Here's a question: what Coltrane album was his first post bop release? You guys have his stuff listed as hard bop until A Love Supreme. Could one make a case for albums like Giant Steps or Favorite Things?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 7:17pm
I think "Giant Steps' should probably stay as hard bop, but let me look into "Favorite Things".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 7:32pm
I'd keep "Favorite Things" in hard bop too. Two of the songs are pure hard bop, the song "My Favorite Things" is in between hard and post bop, and then there is the ballad. Ballads can happen in any genre, and usually I don't use them to determine genre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 7:45pm
That all makes sense to me, I'm mainly responding to Giant Steps' famous chord changes and Favorite Things' spaciness. I don't know how much things like that come in to play. Coltrane's albums sound so ahead of everyone else in that time period
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 7:46pm
That of course doesn't make them post bop! I agree with your tags ultimately haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 8:11pm
One thing to keep in mind, on a lot of albums, more than one tag could fit, but we have to settle on one, its not always an easy decision.
Some of these albums by the 'young lions' of the 90s up to recently are always right in between hard and post bop. I listened to some albums over and over trying to get a decision, its not easy sometimes.
Then there are those people like Coleman Hawkins who are right in between swing and bop, or Monk who is right in between bop and hard bop, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liontime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 4:56pm
While we're at it, how does one differentiate between 'Bop' and 'Hard bop' and is 'Bebop' = 'Bop'?
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