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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2012 at 6:10pm
Yeah, lets break down the son sub genres and talk about the claves. I hear Blen Blen going tick  ..tick  ..tick  ..tick tick.
But I couldn't tell what was happening in the others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2012 at 4:23pm

"Blen, Blen " is rumba/afro. The claves were originally the sailing ship pegs that they used for percussion as it was illegal to play hand drums in Cuba up till the mid sixties. I think the colonists there thought that all the slaves would revert to savagery and eat the lot of em' LOL  Actually in Cuba a slave could buy his own freedom with the system they had but getting the money to do it was another matter.

"Cuba and It's Music" by Ned Sublette ( Thread under books on site) is a wealth of info on Afro Cuban. The majority of the material that I know came from that book with also the notes on the Tumbao Cuban Classics label. I have them all right up to Cat no. 117......yep a hundred and seventeen discs plus their Chano Set, Beny More, Arsenio Rodriguez and Sexteto Habanero who became Septeto when they added another. (First recorded examples of Son between 1924 and 27).
 
I will start a thread on Latin particulary Afro Cuban sub genres but will need to prep it here for a day ot two before posting as it could become a mess if I start doing with posts. Once it is up it is hard to re-adjust if something is missed or incorrect
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2012 at 4:31pm
Sounds good Matt, I'll check it out. Right now I'm listening to a bunch of Afro-Pop I recorded off the radio in SF back in the 80s, wonderful stuff. The radio shows out there were the best.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2012 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

Sounds good Matt, I'll check it out. Right now I'm listening to a bunch of Afro-Pop I recorded off the radio in SF back in the 80s, wonderful stuff. The radio shows out there were the best.

I used to record the African music show here as well on cassette. Got some great music that way.Cool That is where I got my first copy of Franco's "Mario"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2012 at 8:31pm
Todays music additions
 
First up the great Cuban tres player who was actually blind after being kicked in the face by a mule as a child being Arsenio Rodriguez and his songs are still performed today in contempary manners by many a Latin musician.
 
Arsenio though was the man who ushered in the great Cuban format of "The Conjunto" during the mid to late forties. Previous to that it was either an Orchestra or duos and trios. Where as you may question Sexteto Habenero they did not use the instruments that are within a conjunto being guitar,tres and percussion primarily. A Conjunto consists of Congas, bongos or perhaps timbales today,  piano, trumpet or trumpets, tres, guitar, bass and vocalists.
 
This man is the real deal and one of the greatest musicians. One may laugh at the comparison but he is the Cuban Hank Williams and recognised as such within the Latin community.
 
One other note another thing that does have similarities is Bluegrass started in a similar manner in the late forties from duos etc to till Bill Monroes construction of a typical Bluegrass band but today it is Cuban Conjuntos
 
This track is "Dundunbanza" recorded in Cuba 1/12/1949
 
A superb young "Chocolate" Armenteros is on trumpet in the conjunto who is all over many of the Sar recordings in the seventies.
 
 
 


Edited by Matt - 30 Jun 2012 at 8:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2012 at 8:51pm
This one of  Machito ( Frank Grillo) and His Afro Cubans is none other than the Mario Bauza composition "Tanga" recorded 14/11/1950 with another recorded in November the following year at Birdland.
Mario Bauza  ( trumpet) was Machito's right hand man and worked with him to near the end.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2012 at 8:59pm
Next is Miguel Matamoros with song recorded early days as Trio Matamoros and it his first take of his famous song "Lagrimas Negras" which he composed himself and sang as well as played guitar within the trio.  The other two members being Siro Rodriguez ( 2nd voice and guitar) and Rafael Cueto ( guitar and choir...backing vocal)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 12:53pm
I really liked those first two, definitely recognize that sound. Those two also use the mixolydian scale mentioned earlier common to early reggae and African rhumbas etc.
For those who may not know the term, the mixolydian mode usually involves a repeating chord progression in which the root chord goes to the chord a whole step below and back and forth. A real common example is the repeating chords that open the famous hit "Tequila".
On "Dundunbanza" it was G to F, a favorite reggae "riddim", often called "Stagalog" in Jamaica. On "Tanga" it was C to Bb.

Hey Matt, "Lugrianas negras" is in a totally different style than the other two, what style is it, and what style are the other two?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

This one of  Machito ( Frank Grillo) and His Afro Cubans is none other than the Mario Bauza composition "Tanga" recorded 14/11/1950 with another recorded in November the following year at Birdland.
Mario Bauza  ( trumpet) was Machito's right hand man and worked with him to near the end.
 
Mambo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

Todays music additions
 
First up the great Cuban tres player who was actually blind after being kicked in the face by a mule as a child being Arsenio Rodriguez and his songs are still performed today in contempary manners by many a Latin musician.
 
Arsenio though was the man who ushered in the great Cuban format of "The Conjunto" during the mid to late forties. Previous to that it was either an Orchestra or duos and trios. Where as you may question Sexteto Habenero they did not use the instruments that are within a conjunto being guitar,tres and percussion primarily. A Conjunto consists of Congas, bongos or perhaps timbales today,  piano, trumpet or trumpets, tres, guitar, bass and vocalists.
 
This man is the real deal and one of the greatest musicians. One may laugh at the comparison but he is the Cuban Hank Williams and recognised as such within the Latin community.
 
One other note another thing that does have similarities is Bluegrass started in a similar manner in the late forties from duos etc to till Bill Monroes construction of a typical Bluegrass band but today it is Cuban Conjuntos
 
This track is "Dundunbanza" recorded in Cuba 1/12/1949
 
A superb young "Chocolate" Armenteros is on trumpet in the conjunto who is all over many of the Sar recordings in the seventies.
 
 
 
Guaguanco'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Matt Matt wrote:

Next is Miguel Matamoros with song recorded early days as Trio Matamoros and it his first take of his famous song "Lagrimas Negras" which he composed himself and sang as well as played guitar within the trio.  The other two members being Siro Rodriguez ( 2nd voice and guitar) and Rafael Cueto ( guitar and choir...backing vocal)
 
Son
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 3:30pm
I will be listing the definitions for the rythmn and lyrics in another thread soon. I will admit I have not started ( a little last night) but just starting to organise but if I know as the samples come up I will list what they are. As the music becomes more contempary it gets a lot harder and actually impossible to list many as they are a mix at times of many or Western influence's permeate.
 One other note it is not just the timing or construction but it is the lyrical content which picks what they as in a "Pregon" which is actually named after street sellers crys to sell or an announcement and usually has a Son or Guaracha structure for the rythmn.
 
Talking about Pregon's, this one is the great Antonio Machin doing the most famous of them all
 
"El Manisero"  ( The Peanut Vendor). this one is is live but I have no idea where from but the original was recorded 1930 in New York. Could even be Spain because that is where he finished up at the end.
 
 


Edited by Matt - 01 Jul 2012 at 3:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

I really liked those first two, definitely recognize that sound. Those two also use the mixolydian scale mentioned earlier common to early reggae and African rhumbas etc.
For those who may not know the term, the mixolydian mode usually involves a repeating chord progression in which the root chord goes to the chord a whole step below and back and forth. A real common example is the repeating chords that open the famous hit "Tequila".
On "Dundunbanza" it was G to F, a favorite reggae "riddim", often called "Stagalog" in Jamaica. On "Tanga" it was C to Bb.

Hey Matt, "Lugrianas negras" is in a totally different style than the other two, what style is it, and what style are the other two?
Great stuff John having a musician here certainly helps. I only know the basic notes that I learnt at school. Fab stuff. The rest I have just picked up over 50 years by ear.Confused well maybeWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 5:03pm
This one is a Guaracha and there is no better person to sing them than the great Celia Cruz and great really is an understatement for Celia, she could sing with one fabulous powerful voice, but here it is early days and this recording was done in Cuba betweeen 1951 to 53 with La Sonora Matancera.
 
Celia's  music is not for sale in Cuba due to political rubbish.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 5:20pm
Perez Prado was the man who came up with 'The Mambo" He originally replaced Anselmo Sacasas on piano in the early forties in Casino De la Playa. He hit the rythmn by doodling on the piano so the story goes but there were many late night Jam sessions with the band.
 
Perez's own words "Keep it clean a and punchy, with shouting brass and diamond bright percussion" and another term he used was "The Mambo was Afro-Cuban rhythmns with a dash of American Swing"
 
Mambo No. 5 originally recorded in Cuba between 1947 and 1949. This one is a little bit later but still very close
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 5:35pm
Next is the "Cha Cha Cha' with this being the first actually recorded in Cuba 1953. Ninon Mondejar was the leader of Orquesta America and actually The Cha Cha Cha is from a Danzon formula with a rythmn change and boy did it take off.  The Cha Cha Cha is known as classic  Latin music today as soon as the sound is heard. The video lists it as a Charanga which is what the orquestra played previously with a more French leaning but this is Cha Cha Cha number 1. The actual name of the tune is "La Verde Palma"
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 5:37pm
You go Matt, I'll check all these later, I have young students to deal with now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

You go Matt, I'll check all these later, I have young students to deal with now.
Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 7:03pm
Based on the samples provided, I'm guessing that "El Manisero" is based on Guaracha rhythms, not Son.
Correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

Based on the samples provided, I'm guessing that "El Manisero" is based on Guaracha rhythms, not Son.
Correct?
John it is Son/Pregon. The original has a more traditional Cuban sound (1930), Don Aziazu's Orchestra was behind him.  I actually prefer the original but was not available on YouTube. Yesterday before I went out I was trying to put up some Maria Teresa Vera from pre 1920's. There is some stuff but not what I was looking for  ( with Rafael Zequeira) but I will find something that can be used.. That is the old "Trova"...........rural style....accoustic. tres, guitar and vocals. I am bleeding there is no Cheo Marquetti tunes ( Conjunto that played glorious sleazy Son)...........he was awesome I may come across something though while going through You Tube over time yet.
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