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Jazzmen Unite

Printed From: JazzMusicArchives.com
Category: Jazz Music Lounges
Forum Name: Jazz Music Lounge
Forum Description: General jazz music discussions (no polls)
URL: http://www.JazzMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1951
Printed Date: 17 May 2024 at 1:44pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.16 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Jazzmen Unite
Posted By: BlueNote
Subject: Jazzmen Unite
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 3:45pm
Good evening.
Anyone here playing jazz (either publicly or just at home for him/herself)?

I'm a guitarist myself and I've been trying to play jazz for a while now. Most guitary are probably Django Reinhardt things and of course the great Grant Green's stuff.  But I have to say, I don't see the guitar as a worthy competition to sax and piano.

Anyway: If you have any tips on improvisation, online lessons, sheet music, tabs etc. or just experiences with playing jazz, I'd be happy to hear it.



Replies:
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 4:16am
I'm a pro musician, but I don't get a lot of jazz gigs. I'm in Memphis now, but i used to work in San Francisco. In the mid-90s, the acid jazz fad in SF meant there were lots of easy gigs for jazz musicians. 
There are very few clubs for jazz in Memphis. I also like playing standards at home for the practice and just for the fun of it.
If you are looking for lead sheets, someone just dropped off a link to a great site the other day.


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 4:18am
Here is the thread with all the sheet music.
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907


Posted By: BlueNote
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 6:42am
Oh, looks great!

Are you an "educated" jazz player? What instrument do you play?


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 8:58am
I play keyboards, I guess I'm "educated" I know my theory pretty well. I have a couple students who are learning jazz from me, but I'm not really good enough to play bop/standards for money, just funky jazz, fusion, acid jazz etc.


Posted By: BlueNote
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 9:42am
By educated I meant if you have studied jazz. You have to know your theory to play jazz, I guess. Sorry for not being clear.

Anyway: Who do you play most? Who's your favorite keyboard player?


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 12:41pm
Yeah, I do know my theory pretty well, I have a masters degree in theory, but there is still a lot to learn.
My favorite keyboard players are Herbie Hancock, Sun Ra, Theolonius Monk, Herbie Nichols and all the B3 players.
I'm not a great player, but I can do decent RnB/jazz.


Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 7:56pm
I am not a professional musician. I only always listened to music. However, I bought a drum in the days of a junior high student and played it like a hobby. However, the self-education had a limit. I felt need to take a lesson and performed it for approximately seven years. I kept music as a hobby, but the lesson widened my small range surely. My teacher died last year, but can always meet in a site.
 
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/cecil-monroe.aspx?ac=cecil" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/cecil-monroe.aspx?ac=cecil


Posted By: Amilisom
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 11:26pm
I'm actually a college student studying composition (not necessarily Jazz composition) but I've been playing jazz piano for a few years now. I doubt I can provide much, but my grandfather makes jazz guitar lessons on youtube. His channel is Freddym223, I recommend checking out what he has to offer.

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"Pay no attention to what the critics say; there has never been a statue set up in honor of a critic."

-Jean Sibelius


Posted By: BlueNote
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 2:47pm
Has anybody tried to play Grandfather's Waltz from But Beautiful album of Getz and Evans? I cannot find the lead voice anywhere :(


Posted By: Amilisom
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 5:47pm
What exactly do you mean by "the lead voice"? Do you mean a chord chart?

-------------
"Pay no attention to what the critics say; there has never been a statue set up in honor of a critic."

-Jean Sibelius


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

Here is the thread with all the sheet music.
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907
Have you tried this site, also, the term you want is lead sheet, a lead sheet is the same thing as a chord chart. A lead voice, on the other hand, has to do with how you voice chords.


Posted By: Amilisom
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:


Originally posted by js js wrote:

Here is the thread with all the sheet music.
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907

Have you tried this site, also, the term you want is lead sheet, a lead sheet is the same thing as a chord chart. A lead voice, on the other hand, has to do with how you voice chords.


Lead sheet now I feel dumb, I knew that.

-------------
"Pay no attention to what the critics say; there has never been a statue set up in honor of a critic."

-Jean Sibelius


Posted By: Amilisom
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2012 at 2:36pm
I went to that site, it doesn't have Grandfather's Waltz. Bummer.

-------------
"Pay no attention to what the critics say; there has never been a statue set up in honor of a critic."

-Jean Sibelius


Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2012 at 10:11am
I'm a musician but not really a jazz musician. But that's really only cause I'm still learning, and when I get better I want to make some jazzier stuff. 

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http://ozarksoundscape.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Looking for an experimental and eclectic hour of free music made by a teenage guy in his bedroom? Then click this!


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2012 at 10:22am
Originally posted by Amilisom Amilisom wrote:

I went to that site, it doesn't have Grandfather's Waltz. Bummer.
I hit gold with my first two requests that were standards, so I thought I would try some fusion, but no, they didn't have "Red Baron".


Posted By: BlueNote
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2012 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by js js wrote:

Originally posted by js js wrote:

Here is the thread with all the sheet music.
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1907
Have you tried this site, also, the term you want is lead sheet, a lead sheet is the same thing as a chord chart. A lead voice, on the other hand, has to do with how you voice chords.


Yes, I've tried that, it was the first thing I did. I'm looking for the notes sax plays, if you know what I mean. Sorry for not being clear once again.


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2012 at 4:00pm
Yeah, you're looking for the melody and a typical lead sheet or chord chart would have the melody and the chord changes.
I wish I knew where else to look, I guess you tried google searches. There are many sites that offer sheet music for a price.


Posted By: BlueNote
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2012 at 5:41am
Yes, I even tried to search in Swedish (since SWE seems to be the country of origin). And I found this, something I had no idea about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apQut5geY5Q" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apQut5geY5Q


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2012 at 8:57am
Interesting, I guess we should get her added to the site.


Posted By: js
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2012 at 9:15am
I have no idea if this is legit or not, investigate with caution.

http://www.sheetmusictrade.com/sheets/145832/Bill_Evans-Grandfathers_Waltz.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.sheetmusictrade.com/sheets/145832/Bill_Evans-Grandfathers_Waltz.html


Posted By: MilesBeyond
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2012 at 10:58pm
I play jazz guitar. I'm absolute garbage, but I'm learning.

Finding out I was garbage was actually the biggest turn on for jazz for me. I used to play rock and metal all the time, and I would learn Jimmy Page solos note for note and fake Petrucci licks reasonably well and I thought I was God's gift to music. Everything I heard, no matter how technical, how complex it was, it would inspire one of two thoughts in me: Either "Pffft, I can play that!" or "Pffft, with just a bit more practice, I could play that!"

When I first heard Wes Montgomery, though, was when I finally said "Holy hell. If I practised for ten hours a day, every day for the rest of my life, I STILL wouldn't be able to play like that." Then that opened my eyes to the fact that being able to sloppily mimic rock guitar gods does not a good guitarist make. Since then I've never looked back. Some days I wonder if I'm actually getting worse, but it's a journey, and I play for my own enjoyment and expression. I play jazz with other people, but they're mostly musicians at my level or below, so it's never terribly fulfilling.

I just wish I could scrounge up the scratch for some more lessons, but alas...

The biggest dilemma of a jazz musician is: How do you go to see other players live, when you can't afford the places they play at? LOL I guess that's what happens when jazz stops being music for poor black people and instead starts being for rich white people - all the clubs serve $30 plates! Don't they know that all jazzers are impoverished?



Posted By: BlueNote
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2012 at 4:56pm

SONNY SHARROCK: ON IMPROVISATION

As told to Dannette Hill

MY VIEW OF IMPROVISATION IS VERY PERSONAL, FULL of love, anger, truth, lies, and, in the end (I hope), sense. According to Webster's, to improvise is "to compose without previous preparation," or "to make or devise from what is at hand".

There are three basic types of improvisers, the foremost being "the creator," who has an insatiable need to tell his story. For him, improvisation is only a tool. He plays each solo as if it were his last. He will not be compromised, nor will he be stopped. Next is "the juggler," for whom the skill of improvisation is just as important as is the need to tell his story. The juggler gathers around him all of the things he has heard, and one by one tosses them into the air. With his skillful hands he cleverly keeps them aloft. He seldom drops an idea, because he knows them all so well.Finally, there is "the tinkerer, whose improvisations are based on formulas and the instrument itself. His scientific manipulation of sound is laboratory-created and laboratory-bound forever. Making up a subcategory, if you will, is "the fool." He claims he is bored with music, so he has decided to make noise. Fool + Noise = Bullsh*t. Throughout this discussion, I speak mainly about jazz music, for three reasons. First, because it is the music I know best, and it is also 90% improvised. Second, because classical music has not been improvised for at least 200 years. And last, because rock is pop music, with the singer and the song being the main components. Rock instrumental solos fall mainly into the "juggler" category. Regardless of the style of music, guitarists are such an insular group that they have become incestuous. They never listen to other instruments, but instead feed upon each other. It's no wonder that everyone sounds the same. My main influences have always been horn players and drummers. I'm always slightly amused when I see a magazine mention Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, or John Coltrane along with an identification of their instrument. How can anyone think of being a musician and not be familiar with these men? If you ever hope to be a serious improviser, you have to know what, how, and why these and many others contributed to improvisation.

There are five main starting points for improvisation: melody, chords, scales/modes, tonal centers, and freedom. Most improvisers use a combination of these to obtain a particular sound. Throughout any improvisation, it helps to have a clear vision of the melody. I always strive to make my improvisations sound like a song. Melody is the first thing you learn and the last thing you hear before you impro- vise. Melody is the song. In my solo on "Broken Toys" [Sonny Sharrock--Guitar, Enemy102) I improvise pieces of melody and use them to develop a new one, which becomes the song.

Although a composer might use chords in conjunction with a melody, an improvisation based on the chords can be totally un- related to the original song. The technique for improvising on chord changes is fairly simple: You apply the appropriate scales and arpeggios to the chords. The hard part is to turn this into music. Charlie Parker and John Coltrane were probably the two greatest chordal improvisers who ever lived. They go beyond the standard technique, extending the scales and substituting and layering chords over the basic chord changes. Modal playing is the opposite of chordal improvisation. Instead of applying scales to chords, the scales create the harmony by emphasizing different notes. Soloing on tonal centers is different than modal and chordal playing, although it is a combination of the two. It simply uses either the most dominant tonality in a set of chord changes or a melody as the basis for a solo. Ornette Coleman is a master of this type of improvisation. He builds upon the melody, shifting his tonal center at will.

Finally, there is freedom--the most misunderstood and the most misused of all these elements. Freedom grows out of improvisation. It is both your emotional peak and your deeper self. It is the cry of jazz. The one rule for playing free is that you can play anything you want. A critic once remarked to me that it takes a great amount of taste to play free. He was wrong. Artists cannot be hampered by the restriction of taste. What playing free does take is imagination and confidence. In free playing, there is nothing else to stand on; it's like walking in space. If you're confident, you will not fall. The road forms beneath your feet as your imagination takes you places arrived at by no other means. My confidence in the beauty of the music carries me through. Coltrane's Ascension [MCA, 29020] is the best example of freedom. Jugglers, tinkers, and fools try to play free; however, they will never succeed. It is reserved only for the masters.

I have referred to these techniques and devices as starting points, because they are what you should use to develop your improvisation. However, you must attempt to go beyond them. Your solo should be a work of art, not a technical display, which is the most difficult part to trying to create great work. Your work must be great, or it is nothing. There is no middle ground. A couple of years ago I toured Europe playing duos with saxophonists and other guitarists. We played in museums, coffee houses and anyplace where 20 to 30 people could fit into. I took these gigs partly as a challenge, because I wanted to see if I could make music without a rhythm section behind me. About halfway through the first set on the first night, I realized that I had not gone to any of the beautiful places that music always takes me. Instead, I was struggling to come up with ideas and devices to make the music meaningful. I failed. Night after night I failed. Duke Ellington was right, when he stated the first rule of music in his song title "it Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing." I had forgetton this. I was trying to be interesting and clever, but instead I ended up playing bullsh*t.

Swing is based in confidence. It is the grace that you acquire after years of paying dues. Technically, it could be the emphasis placed on a note or part of a phrase that gives it movement; however, don't forget that technique is only a beginning. Swing is the dividing line between those who can play and those who can't. Although the term was first used by jazz musicians, all music can swing in its own way; it simply depends on who's playing it. Little Richard, Professor Longhair, Aaron Copland, Bo Diddley, Samuel Barber, and Sonny Terry all swing mightily without ever having played a note of jazz.

Music can be played at breakneck tempos, or as slow as the most painful blues. It can be composed or improvised, but swing it must. The swing that I use is the same swing that Benny Moten spoke of in the 1930s, that Bird and Dizzy used in the 50s, that Thelonious Monk turned inside out and Miles turned into a groove, and that Coltrane, Ornette, and Cecil Taylor set free. Goddammit, you really can't play without it!

A rhythm section that plays static, highly arranged music behind a soloist doesn't add much, but one that swings and improvises brings excitement and surprise to the music. They make the music as wonderful as a first love and as devastating as death. I love to play with drummers who play loud, long, and strong. Many years ago I had the good fortune of playing with Elvin Jones. I always pay a lot of attention to the way a drummer uses his ride i cymbal; Elvin plays it differently than anyone I've ever heard. His time is impeccable, but he doesn't use the standard repetitive rhythm on the ride: Instead, he accents his ceaseless snare and tom patterns with it. Elvin's high-hat cymbal does not always fall on the traditional second, and fourth beats; like his ride, it too is used to accent when necessary. With all of this coming at you at once, you hear and play differently. You swing or you die. When I played with Elvin for the first time, I was afraid that I would be swallowed up by the music coming out of the drums. Eventually I got my nerve together and let myself go into the music. I started to develop melodies based on the rhythmic phrases. My confidence grew. I realized that I could not get lost, because I was in the hands of a master drummer and improviser. I had just met swing head-on for the first time. All great improvisers spend many years developing their own sound. On the other hand, many guitarists buy their sound in little boxes, or, if they can afford it, in rack-mounted "stairways to heaven." If their individuality is ever questioned, they just point to their digital read-outs to show that their numbers are different from the other guy's in town. Ultimately, your sound is your hands. It may i take a lifetime for it to reach its fullness, but playing is a lifetime gig. if you're not totally serious, do yourself and the world a favor and just do weddings, or buy a can of mousse and become a 6-string gladiator from hell and make some money.

Imitating someone else's sound is unforgivable. I've known cats who began by trying to sound like their favorite players. Now 25 years later they are struggling to develop individuality--what a waste of time. No one remembers the imitators. Miles is Miles, Coltrane is Coltrane, and Sonny Sharrock is Sonny Sharrock. For better or worse, you are your own truth. Likewise, I hate to see soloists thinking onstage. At that point you should only be concerned with feeling. Trying to find places to insert your favorite licks is like painting by numbers: Always correct and always boring. When I'm improvising, I don't want to spend time groping for notes, so I find all of the appropriate scales and modes within a few frets. By starting scales with your left-hand 3rd and 4th fingers, you can minimize your movement' up and down the fretboard. This allows you to concentrate on creating melodies instead of performing gymnastics. Remember that your improvisation must have feeling. It must swing and it must have beauty, be it the fragile beauty of a snowflake or the terrible beauty of an erupting volcano. Beauty--no matter how disturbing or how still--is always true. Don't be afraid to let go of the things you know. Defy your weaker, safer self. Create. Make music.


Copyright © 2002 Dannette Hill



Posted By: BlueNote
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2012 at 5:00pm
MilesBeyond: Very good post, completely accurate.

But in my country, jazz clubs are pretty cheap, just like any other pub or bar. Also, there are many jazz festivals going on (e. g. http://www.bohemiajazzfestival.cz////?lang=en" rel="nofollow - http://www.bohemiajazzfestival.cz////?lang=en )

js: Thanks for the link.

She is already here, I think.



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