Hard bop or hardly bop? |
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Good to know! The third track, Euterpe, is particularly interesting with (what I believe to be) a modal baseline throughout. Don't know if that would push it over to AG.
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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No, generally modal isn't AG, we tend to define AG as atonal, or mostly atonal.
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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You might enjoy checking out this thread:
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Thanks for the link! Very helpful actually. I don't think Contours ever really gets atonal, but it's not all that straightforward either. Pretty cool album! Hard to classify haha
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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What about Jackie Mclean's album One Step Beyond? Seems like the title would suggest post bop but it walks that line really carefully.
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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^ that one sounds like sort of 'out there' hard bop, but I think hard bop is still the best tag for that one.
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Fair enough I think you're right. In my personal collection I have it tagged as post bop mostly cause of the packaging
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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There isn't necessarily one correct tag for an album, I think post bop would be a legitimate tag for that album.
By the way, I don't get the cover for that album.
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Oh wow, until this very moment I always just assumed it was him standing on a ship's mast or something. Upon closer examination... I'm not sure if that's him or not. And it looks like he's standing in front of some antennas?
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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I guess that is Jackie, I always assumed Jackie was black.
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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Actually, I guess he is racially mixed.
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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That's kinda what I thought but I never saw any information before. Where did you see that?
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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Just looking at his face, I really don't know, but he looks like a racially mixed person. Either way, he is one hell of saxophone player.
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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True enough!! Here's a question: what Coltrane album was his first post bop release? You guys have his stuff listed as hard bop until A Love Supreme. Could one make a case for albums like Giant Steps or Favorite Things?
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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I think "Giant Steps' should probably stay as hard bop, but let me look into "Favorite Things".
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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I'd keep "Favorite Things" in hard bop too. Two of the songs are pure hard bop, the song "My Favorite Things" is in between hard and post bop, and then there is the ballad. Ballads can happen in any genre, and usually I don't use them to determine genre.
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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That all makes sense to me, I'm mainly responding to Giant Steps' famous chord changes and Favorite Things' spaciness. I don't know how much things like that come in to play. Coltrane's albums sound so ahead of everyone else in that time period
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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That of course doesn't make them post bop! I agree with your tags ultimately haha
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 34240 |
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One thing to keep in mind, on a lot of albums, more than one tag could fit, but we have to settle on one, its not always an easy decision.
Some of these albums by the 'young lions' of the 90s up to recently are always right in between hard and post bop. I listened to some albums over and over trying to get a decision, its not easy sometimes. Then there are those people like Coleman Hawkins who are right in between swing and bop, or Monk who is right in between bop and hard bop, etc.
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liontime
JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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While we're at it, how does one differentiate between 'Bop' and 'Hard bop' and is 'Bebop' = 'Bop'?
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